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Author Topic: does the public want JTF 2 disbanded ?
colgan
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posted 17 July 2021 21:20      Profile for colgan   Email colgan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
did any body read the full page comment about the JTF 2 guys being a bunch of criminals (bank robbing,kidnapping,sodomie,torturing)in the toronto sun on sunday july 15. please tell me it is not true,and that it is just the commie rag up to there usual bullsh** journalisum! [Canadian]
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King
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posted 18 July 2021 01:03      Profile for King   Email King   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nah,

The general public has no clue of what the JTF2 is about. Hell, those of us with an interest know very little more.

I read the editoral by Peter Worthington (except in the Winnipeg Sun) and I would judge it as very poor. The grammer was bad (although that may have been the fault of the editor) and the writing style was to sequential. He just listed items one after the other.

The content was no better. It seems that he lifted the entire atricle from Scott Taylor's book Tested Mettle. There was nothing really original about it. However there were a few "facts" I had not heard before.

The JTF2's involvement in Somalia. I have always been under the impression that the JTF2 was just being created while the Somalia mission was occuring. Worthington speaks of Capt. Rainville often. How he lead a JTF2 "demonstration" (Worthington called it a "turkey shoot") to impress U.S. special forces and Canadian brass by firing at unarmed Somalis. It's unclear as to what Worthington is speaking of. There were a few such incidents involving Rainville in Somalia. He also said that Scott Taylor suspected that the entire Somalia Inquiry was cancelled because U.S. SF were wearing CDN. uniforms during the mission and that if this fact came to light it would somehow expose the role of the JTF2. I have read a lot on the Airborne and Somalia but have never heard of this before. U.S. Army SF did wear CDN. uniforms but worked alongside the Airborne, not the JTF2. Rainville himself was in the Airborne, not the JTF2 at the time of the mission.

In connection with the above, Worthington mentions Rainville's "readiness exercise" on the Quebec Citidel in 1992. Worthington left the impression that the raid was done by JTF2 soldiers (which I'm not sure about) and lead by Rainville (which it was) who was at the time a JTF2 officer (that's uncertain as well).

Native "Warriors" didn't tap into the JTF2 phones, they most likely read the number off a card printed out by Col. Herb Pitts who put the JTF2 number on his private dog breeding business. The other comment about JTF2 achieving relatively little in it's tenure is unsubstantiated. How could he (this goes for me too) know what the unit has or hasn't achieved?

Worthington, who fought against the disbandment of the Airborne Regiment is now using the same arguements against the JTF2 that appalled him not so long ago. "A few bad apples," "trigger-happy rambos," "inept junior (and senior) leadership." He closes by calling for the units disbandment (or to become more accountable to the public).

As I mentioned before, it seems as if Peter Worthington just spoke to Scott Taylor, identical claims can be found in Taylor's book. This is getting pretty suspecious, but Taylor may be lusting after a scandal, partially because I think he has a personal vendetta against many of the senior staff at NDHQ. As for Worthington, I generally like his work, too bad he wrote this.


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posted 18 July 2021 08:58      Profile for Soldier of Fortune   Email Soldier of Fortune   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If they disbanded JTF2 then it would definetly have a down on moral (I think) because I know that one of the reasons that im joining the forces is to try to make it to JTF2. Its a good goal to strive for.


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fusilier
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posted 18 July 2021 17:59      Profile for fusilier   Email fusilier   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In my opinion JTF 2 is a vital unit of the CF. They're our primary anti-terrorism response. It seems to me that everytime the Canadian Forces gets an exceptional unit (i.e. Airborne) the media seems to think it is primarily composed of hooligans and criminals. JTF 2 is composed of highly trained highly professional soldiers whose dedication to their country should not be questioned. I'd like to see some smart *** reporter last 1 hour in the selection. Like it is'nt hard enough to get new recruits into the Forces without some reporter shooting his mouth off. JTF 2 is so discreet for a reason. It's pretty hard to have a clandestine unit that's effective with all of these reporters sticking their noses where they should'nt. The press should just leave JTF 2 alone so they can get along with their job.


PRESS [Fifty]


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colgan
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posted 18 July 2021 20:49      Profile for colgan   Email colgan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
you took the words right out of my mouth fusillier.that peter worthington is a bag of sh*t
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meathead
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posted 19 July 2021 15:05      Profile for meathead     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay i have read all of the recruiting info and heard all of the stories about JTF2 from my fellow colleagues in the CF and the media and other sources, but to be honest, nobody except those within the JTF2 organization really know what goes on. That I think is key, that only those within the JTF2 organization know what goes on. That is important based on their line of work. They should not be responsible to the general public. The Canadian public and our politicians in general are not good for the health of the CF and it's units, whether it be the JTF2, the now disbanded Airborne, or any unit. It is time the very few politicians we do have who are willing to stand up and fight, tells the Canadian public and the rest of the politicians to back off and let the Army, Navy and Airforce do what they have to do in order to maintain an effective force rather than worrying about what the public might think.
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the patriot
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posted 19 July 2021 21:22      Profile for the patriot   Author's Homepage   Email the patriot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Warning: Article To Follow

July 15, 2021

Canada's elite secret army
Chances are you've never heard of these guys - and that's just the way they want it

By PETER WORTHINGTON -- Toronto Sun

The most secret, unpublicized and least known branch of the Canadian military is also its most controversial and, arguably, at the root of many of the problems that have beset our Armed Forces in the past decade.

It's something called JTF2 (Joint Task Force II).

The Department of National Defence (DND) won't talk about JTF2, other than to admit it exists and is headquartered at Dwyer Hill, outside Ottawa.

JTF2 is a hyper-secret, elite counter-terrorist and VIP security force of some 250 hand-picked volunteers who are super-fit and super-trained, whose identities are secret, whose budget is classified and who are our version of Britain's SAS and U.S. Special Forces.

But JTF2 doesn't seem to have achieved much since its creation in 1992 except to flirt with disaster - to itself, the military, the country.

Originally the brainchild of Robert Fowler when he was deputy defence minister (before his UN ambassadorship) and then-chief of defence staff (CDS) Gen. John de Chastelain, JTF2 quickly evolved into something of a secret army outside the military chain of command, reporting directly to the CDS.

Members operate in small units (called "bricks") and act as bodyguards to the PM and Defence minister when they travel to dangerous places. Regular soldiers aren't sufficient protection.

JTF2 soldiers accompanied then-army commander Gen. Maurice Baril on his peculiar 1995 reconnaissance mission to Zaire - apparently in search of a crisis to which to commit our troops, although there were no takers.

DEEMED UNSUITABLE

JTF2 replaced the RCMP's anti-terrorist Special Emergency Response Team (SERT), which was deemed unsuitable for quasi-military operations. In fact, JTF2 has replaced the disbanded Airborne Regiment as our "elite" military unit. To some, it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Miraculously, JTF2 (there is no JTF1) has escaped critical assessment. Mostly, it's been Scott Taylor of the military magazine Esprit de Corps (see his book, Tested Mettle) and Dave Pugliese of the Ottawa Citizen, who have documented its deeds.

Back in 1993, a JTF2 platoon was sent to Bosnia to "rescue" 55 Canadian peacekeepers held hostage by the Serbs. Fortunately for all concerned, the Serbs let the Canadians go who, it turned out, were being treated lavishly as "guests" by their captors.

In 1996, with tacit co-operation of Foreign Affairs and DND, a JTF2 commando team went to Peru, ostensibly to offer safe passage to terrorists who held 500 guests hostage at the Japanese ambassador's residence.

The idea was that a Canadian Airbus, with a platoon of JTF2 commandos hidden inside, would ambush the terrorists as they boarded for the free flight to Cuba.

Mercifully, the Peruvian military vetoed the plan and raided the embassy, freeing all hostages and killing all the terrorists.

So hush-hush is JTF2, that when would-be and wannabe JTF2 members became involved in a bank- robbing ring, the matter was hushed up. (Two soldiers not in the JTF2, although one had tried out for it, got 12 and seven years respectively for a 1998 CIBC heist in Calgary, where 80 shots were fired. Several JTF2 members associated with the ring, according to testimony, were dealt with in secret, with no publicity, despite confessions.)

Former Airborne Capt. Michel Rainville, recently convicted in Quebec of torture, after initially being charged with torture, kidnapping, illegal confinement, extortion with a firearm, assault and death threats relating to an incident in 1992, served as a JTF2 officer.

Rainville led a JTF2 "exercise" against Van Doos in Quebec City, ostensibly testing security of the Citadel's weapons locker. Wearing ski masks and carrying shotguns and Uzi machine pistols, the pretend terrorists overpowered two soldiers on guard duty, stripped, beat, tortured, bound them with duct tape and threatened to kill them unless they co-operated. One soldier was sodomized with a baton and then a shotgun.

One terrified soldier escaped, climbed down the wall and called the police who arrived in full riot gear. The army tried to hush the matter up, and for years ignored the grievances of one of the victims (Frank Savage) until he brought it to the attention of civilian authorities, who laid the charges of which Rainville was eventually found guilty.

It also turns out the infamous 1993 "turkey shoot" of two "infiltrators" in Somalia (and the close-range execution-style killing of one of them), was a JTF2 "demonstration," led by the same Rainville, to show visiting Canadian and U.S. Special Forces brass their worth.

Trooper Kyle Brown, convicted in the beating death of a Somali prisoner, was always puzzled why American Special Forces were in Canadian uniforms in Somalia. It seems they were secretly training and working with JTF2.

Taylor speculates the reason the Somalia inquiry was suddenly aborted was because the question of American Special Forces wearing Canadian uniforms was about to come out, revealing the involvement of JTF2 commandos.

When the Airborne Regiment was first sent to Somalia, Brig.-Gen. Ernie Beno, commander of the Special Service Force at Petawawa, urged that Rainville be sent home immediately as unfit, when his photo ran in a Montreal newspaper showing three commando knives strapped to him. Rainville boasted that he and his men were trained in assassination and he could "kill a man in two seconds."

Beno's advice was ignored at the military's top levels.

JTF2 was involved in various confrontations with Indians - and looked inept when the Mohawk Warrior Society, smuggling cigarettes and firing weapons at Cornwall, somehow tapped into and compromised JTF2's classified phone system.

As well as guarding VIPs and attending summit meetings and gatherings like the Pan-Am Games in Winnipeg, JTF2 commandos have gone to Bosnia, Kosovo, Haiti and Rwanda, where "black operations" were planned, but rarely materialized, or had much effect.

DISASTROUS

While there's a need for elite troops in certain situations - which is what our disbanded Airborne Regiment was - secret armies are usually disastrous.

I'd argue that JTF2 should be disbanded - or made public and accountable. SAS and U.S. Special Forces operations have MI6 and the CIA as intelligence sources, but JTF2 is without a similar resource, and must depend on allies.

Hence, it has a certain vulnerability. Traditionally, Canada doesn't dabble in international clandestine operations.

We don't need a secret army unit that has been associated with bank robbers and disgraced individuals like Rainville serving Canada's interests.
****************************************************************************

I find this quite amusing. No, JTF-2 will not be shut down. It is quite rare that I will say this, but this time Peter Worthington is wrong. Every respectable profession has had its rotten apples. Jesuit priests in Newfoundland molested young boys (St. Vincent Monastery), should we bash the clergy?! Teachers date students who send them romantic e-mails and have affairs with them. Are all teachers now pedophiles?! JTF-2's mandate is that of anti-terrorism and covert operations. The public is in my opinion STUPID. This organization could someday save your life at an airport if some terrorist decided to make your life a living hell before your plane takes off. The whole Air India bombing fiasco from 1985 could have been avoided had these people been around back then. Furthermore, if Mr. Worthington was aware; every MOC is open to post to JTF-2. Not just former Canadian Airborne Regiment members. Which means, that serving members from the Air Force, Navy, Army, Reserve Force, and Cadet Instructor Cadre can post for duties with JTF-2 as long as they meet the various criteria.

-the patriot-

[ 19 July 2001: Message edited by: the patriot ]


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Soldier of Fortune
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posted 20 July 2021 07:49      Profile for Soldier of Fortune   Email Soldier of Fortune   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This Worthington is an *******. He says that JTF2 has accomplished nothing, how the **** does he know? He probly made these speculations because the only thing that gets out to the public is the bad stuff that some of the operatives do.


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the patriot
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posted 20 July 2021 11:54      Profile for the patriot   Author's Homepage   Email the patriot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For an extremely thorough read on what JTF-2 is all about, I've attached a weblink to a series of sites that will tell a person all they ever wanted to know about the organization.

http://www.specialoperations.com/foreign/Canada/JTF2.html

-the patriot-


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colgan
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posted 20 July 2021 20:42      Profile for colgan   Email colgan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Has anybody read this book tested mettle.is it just about the JTF, or is it about the CF. Is it a good read, and should i buy it
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fusilier
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posted 21 July 2021 11:54      Profile for fusilier   Email fusilier   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've read Twisted Mettle, it's alright. Scott Taylor is a littled grizzled against the Forces. A disgruntled former employee, you know. The book is full of facts and true stories, but there's also alot of opinions from Scott Taylor too, so watch out for that.
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King
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posted 21 July 2021 12:51      Profile for King   Email King   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Can officers in the CIC apply for the JTF2?

Tested Mettle has some interesting stories, but there is a short chapter that bashes the JTF2 a little and an insane final installment of some reforms Taylor believes are in order for the CF. Personally, I don't enjoy Taylor's style of writing, it's not all that readable, he writes like he's placing an order for office supplies.


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Doug
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posted 21 July 2021 14:56      Profile for Doug     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CIC Officers cannot join the JTF.
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colgan
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posted 21 July 2021 16:44      Profile for colgan   Email colgan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the info on the book,think i will skip it.on a side note i was watching CNN and saw a commercial for CNN presents on sunday at 22:00 about the 101st tranning on mount/fibua check it out.
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King
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posted 21 July 2021 20:38      Profile for King   Email King   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Doug,

That's what I thought.


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