[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: Grubby ]

http://www.journal.dnd.ca/vol2/no2_e/policy_e/policy2_e.html

Thanks for the info...very interesting article...
Hit the hammer on the head of the nail for sure. On page 46 of that article at the bottom, they state that from their study "...we were disapointed but not surpirised to find that not a single person had been asked in any structured or laterally consistent way, 'why are you leaving?' " For me the same deal...not a final formal interview by anyone when I left. I was stunned at this and asked, by nobody knew who would do it...unit or baseside. Pass the buck around as they say! Yeah I always said now that if they (DND/CF) got me into the forces as fast as they released me, I would have been impressed. Took me over a year and a half to get in...mostly by myself calling the recruiting centre to find out where my application was being transfer to next. Anyway very vaild points and makes me feel better that people are aware of this problem/situation.

Grubby

[ 10 August 2001: Message edited by: Grubby ]

[ 10 August 2001: Message edited by: Grubby ]

Well said man...totally there are many reasons. You said some very true points. Same for what I witnessed with Cpl's w/JLC's waiting years and years for promotion to "masterjacks". Some guys plain just get fed-up all together with empty promises etc... I totally agree with your reply 100%. It is sad when your good buddy gets out (and you know he/she has very good potential for the top) and is very "checked-out". The way I look at it as well is that if they do a hell of a lot better (by leaving) somewhere else, and enjoy what they are doing, like a police force or whatever career...then good for them!! There must be improvements for sure and just dumping money here and there is just a temp solution. Did you read that article up above??? The link to the Canadian Military Journal? Great read and those pages echoed my feelings and thoughts for sometime. My service was great and I did some things, but...I also saw too many "deep rooted" problems and double-standards that I can't fathom possible fixing. Years and years of stretching like an elastic band. I just don't know...maybe as CDS you could change things or even as a CO, but to attain those ranks or positions... you have to go with the flow, hob-nob at functions and rub elbows with the right people, or else retire as a capt. You can't call a spade a spade and expect people to be happy with you...even if your a "solver". They (DND/CF) see "whistle blowers" who see problems, as PROBLEMS themselves. Well hey at least the new Ombudsman has helped prove that Capt. there on the national news did his very best and was ignored by "brass" who think everything is hunky-dory and won't deal with problems. So much for the chain of command dealing with issues. He probably smelt a coverup from the getgo!! What do you think on a seperate internal commitee within the military, who have equivalent civilian rank and power to deal with issues?

I like the idea of the internal committee within the military, but a few questions. Wouldn't it be rather difficult to keep the committee impartial?! We've already seen what happens when things are part of the Chain of Command. The instinctive response by your higher-up is "cover buddy's *** ". The whole premise of the Ombudsman is to operate outside the Chain of Command and assist in dealing with dead links in the Chain itself. Furthermore, the proposed committee that you've thought of would be staffed by serving officers or by civillians?!

Yeah see you got me there by the balls! It's a hard call on that one. Your damm right, an internal committee would be impartial in theory...but in practice...you know as well as I do, when money, funds, and budget are milling around in people's minds then...yeah..a mess and sides are taken for financial support. The current Ombudsman seems good. Well I only base that on the decision of that young Capt, who they cleared recently on the t.v. & news. Yeah frickin' cleared him of actually (gasp) doing his rightfull job in the first place. Don't get me going on that...please...maybe in another topic.
As for being staffed by serving officers or civilians point. Why the hell assume it has to be officers only "club". Man make it NCO's, hell throw PTE/CPL ranks in there to know and have the pulse of the troops, sailors and airmen. If it was a military comittee, I don't know if it could be done. We've seen too much that the chain lacks on doing in the past years. I.E. After the Somalia Inquiry...that whole bloody thick report, with problems and solutions. What ever happened with the results of those findings? Anyone know?...many a general peering in on this can select his rank up top and put in a response (surely nobody can touch him for speaking his opinion). Probably nothing, except more sensitivity training. I'd say seriously...a civilian imparial group. Made of of possibly ex-service people, others, and no way people working federally. Somehow get funding from the government with no strings attached.

Running around, going "up he sees me, DOWN" while verbally shouting bang! bang! bang! is just plain embarrassing because of no funds for even blank ammo! Come on people. And probably one of the best incidents that I recall is in Gagetown on a defensive position. Training for wartime...everyone serious about the mission. I was sitting behind the .50 cal at O' dark something in the morning. Everybody is at 50%. This "enemy force" LSVW pulls right up onto the position and drives damm near over trenches and people. Well I start yelling at people close by and notionally engage with the .50 cal. Well when all the Senior NCO's shake out their cob webs and run onto the position from the tree line, you guess it sh** hits the fan. The PL WO freaks out and says "Why did no body shoot" The big rant and rave as per SOP! No one answers (probably were alseep or scared). I walk up to a Mcpl close by and tell him that I engaged with the .50 and the veh would have been destroyed to pieces. He goes over to the PL WO, who's in a group with SGT's, MCPL's and they start laughing at me!! If you can believe that sh**!!! There all like "right on Pte. Bloggins so and so first confirmed kill"! Remarks like that. I was mad as hell and thought "here I am doing what I am supposed to do, and in wartime situation probably saved their sleeping *** " for what ridicule and a joke. Serious enough (they) during inspections, yelling in your face about dust on your boots, but having a grand old time when doing actual wartime and limited training. All I did with that was put it in the back of my pocket. Yeah I agree with most humour is important...but there is a time and a place. That being not it. Especially when our position was attacked and compromised. Being the butt end of that joke was not professional...since I had the balls to speak up in the first place anyhow. Chalk that up to the start of regular B.S. occurrences, nice start for an impressionable Private... God help us if we go to war again...God help us all!
Grubby

[ 20 August 2001: Message edited by: Grubby ]

They are advertising a lot more. My question to you is...so what if people think it's cool? So joe blow sees some cool ad on the tube, signs up for his hitch, and after being in for a few years pulls-the-pin, gets out...cause it's not cool. What good is that? Like I stated before, they (DND/CF) must start looking at the people who they already have! Especially the PTE who is going to resign or engage his contract for another few years. Yeah they need people to enter the CF and retain them....got to be more incentives...how about like the states Montgomery GI Bill? or contract insentives? signing bonuses? silly me...yeah it's all about the lack of money again. So you join the winning team and find out that they have been getting their asses kicked for years...and Senior NCO's are telling this to you. Things like "Get out while you can and do something better, instead of getting 'stuck' like me". Go and make something of yourself. Some of the old "dogs" either has the army or jail as a choice...and they'll tell you this. As for a Canadian soldiers...try CBC Peacekeepers flick or the Devils Brigade. Those are good...and at least an attempt on unit cohesion and operational tours in the Balkans. Yeah not enough...pretty Americanized in that regard. In the infantry everyone is "Macho" didn't you know? or at least they want you to be! Mr. Tough-guy, who bites his lip, keeps the chin up and soldiers on through years and years of bureaucracy and chickenS***! I can see the "cool" idea flying, they have done it for years. But do you actually get to do "desert warefare"? or "Jungle warefare"...pretty damm rare these days. How about and "E&E; (escape and evasion)" course??? No to aggressive to be run these days. How about regular Unarmed Combat training once a week to keep current? Nope, never happened...so once you get in and sit on your *** for years doing so-called "locker security"...the MOC/CF looses it's appeal real quick! What it all boils down to is lack of funds to train. Go in the field, where soldiers belong...developing their skills and SOP's! Untill the Federal Government increases DND yearly budget...then hell why sign up if it looks cool? check out the link up below...courtesy of Towhey:

Yeah...I agree. Bitter...yeah a bit, more less frustrated towards the end. As for lack of effort on my part...I partially agree with you. Too many times I asked and was turned down for (i.e. C-6...map and compass, AFV) etc to practice from CQ's. So I got fed up and sat down like the other sheep in the herd. No classes planned, no one to teach....it was always too much of an effort to get things done. People were like why bother. Yeah the lack of initative comment is bang on. Oh hell yeah I agree with you...as a PTE I would have been more than happy to teach a class. Two sided coin though on that 1.) people weren't interested..say sit down "brown"noser and 2.) the JLC cpl/mcpl would say "sit down" your not qualified to teach (ie no JLC)...the "who do you think you are comments would start". Tommy the rock and a hard place saying. The problem...nobody cared or bothered. And Jesus why didn't I every have you for my SGT? Would have got along great I'm sure. You seem to care about the troops in your section! Hey as one of the Leadership Principles. "Know your soldiers and promote thier welfare". We all had those cards...I had mine in my wallet...other tossed them around like ninja stars in the parking lot. So you can see my frustration while in, and bitterness. And hey! Your damm right while the Sect Comd is gone it should be the Sect 2i/c who takes the bull by the horns and does something. And at least it shows initiative and drive, not only to the section-mates but hopefully the SGT will see as well the good effort.
I.E. Gagetown...would have been nice to have the section comander checking the troops...instead of racked out all night. Competency is something we need.