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Author Topic: RCMP mbrs in the Militia
noneck
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posted 09 March 2021 22:00      Profile for noneck   Email noneck   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Can anyone out there tell me why a member of the RCMP cannot serve in the primary reserves? I know we could go on about a conflict of interest....But then why can Municipal police officers then serve? If it's because the RCMP is federal then why can customs and corrections officers still join. I believe that it is an antiquated rule that would need nothing more than a MOU between unit CO and Detachment OIC to determine that during time of need the RCMP job would come first. We all know that it needs an Act of Parliament to activate and call up the militia. Anyway does anyone out there have an idea of how to tackle this problem? In this period of poor recruiting wouldn't it be a prudent move to recruit individuals that have already passed a security screening ,are of good character as well as disciplinedand and are in good physical condition. Thanks your comments would be appreciated.
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garb811
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posted 10 March 2021 13:37      Profile for garb811     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A read of the RCMP Act shows that this isn't specifically ruled out but it does give the Commissioner the authority to institute other rules and regulations "for the organization, training, conduct, performance of duties, discipline, efficiency, administration or good government of the Force."

Para 4 of the Act also states, "The Force may be employed in such places within or outside Canada as the Governor in Council prescribes." which tells you something.

Para 18 d reads "to perform such other duties and functions as are prescribed by the Governor in Council or the Commissioner." They too, are subject to being "called up" for duty.

Then there is Section 12.1 which states "Every member who has contravened, is found contravening or is suspected of contravening the Code of Conduct or an Act of Parliament or of the legislature of a province may be suspended from duty by the Commissioner." Get charged under the Code of Service Discipline and get suspended. Of course, reading this you could also be suspended for being give a provincial traffic ticket. Not sure how Provincial Police Acts deal with this.

Lets not even get into the issue of Commissions.

My take on it is the RCMP are already burdened with obligations that other police forces and agencies aren't. From my take on it, it's para 18d that is really the issue though since it would be a dogs breakfast if both the RCMP and the members Militia unit would be called up at the same time, no matter what MOU was in place beforehand.

Having said all of that, the RCMP
now permits it's members to join the Cadet Instructor Cadre. Of course, there really isn't much worry that these guys will ever be called up.


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noneck
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posted 10 March 2021 18:29      Profile for noneck   Email noneck   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I am considering writing to the MND for permission to rejoin .Presently I am on the SHR, I was looking at the CIC route, however I don't think I am readyfor that. It wouldn't be the same as leading a section in advance to contact or going on concentrations. I did call the Ombudsman's office and they suggested that I try the MND route first and carbon copy all correspondance to them.The only other solution, is to badger my Bn CO to look the other way and plead ignorance to my present occupation. Since I am on the SHR it wouldn't involve CFRC in order to raise me back on strength. I do know that here in the Lower Mainland of BC there are several RCMP members serving in Militia units as both officers and NCO's. It would be interesting to hear from some of them.

Cabar Feidh


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garb811
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posted 11 March 2021 12:25      Profile for garb811     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heh, I'd been thinking that this was a RCMP prohibition on your enrolling, not a CF one yet there it is in QR&O; 6.01(2) "the following persons shall not be enrolled in the Canadian Forces: (a) a member of any other of Her Majesty’s forces, or of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police".

QR&O; 6.01(5) "A member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police may be enrolled in the Cadet Instructor Cadre. (4 August 2021)"

And the note to this:
"A member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police enrolled in the Cadet Instructor Cadre is not eligible for transfer to another sub-component of the Reserve Force."

Unfortunately it doesn't give a detailed explanation about why this is, http://www.dnd.ca/admfincs/subjects/qr_o/vol1/tofc06_e.asp is the link if you want to read it over yourself.

Given the level of detail they have gone to in this QR&O;, I don't think a letter to the MND is going to help you out and I believe the Bn CO would be very unwise if he were to look the other way as it places both of you in a bad situation when it does come to light. If there are RCMP officers out there doing this on the QT I hope they realize that they are putting both "careers" on the line to do this.

Thinking further it appears that this order is essentially equating the RCMP as one of Her Majesty's Forces. Given that the RCMP formed all of the Provost Corps in WWI and #1 Provost Coy in WWII this is quite possible. I'm not sure of the exact history but is it possible these folks didn't need to enroll to go overseas? Perhaps a Q for one of our history boffins to research.


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Master Blaster
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posted 15 March 2021 23:25      Profile for Master Blaster   Email Master Blaster   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As this thread is very specific and has some very 'black and white' responses (ie: QR&O;'s) I thought that I'd throw my $.0002 (US) in anyway.

I was training at the Depot in Dwyer Hill (prior to the Secret Squirrels taking over) and the subject of Militia training came up. The general consensus was that it was not possible for a Horseman to join as it would be like drawing two paychecks from the same employer (both federal agencies) but then the item of federal Corrections officers came up and we were informed that they form a separate group within the federal emplyoyment organization as they are union represented. As Horsemen are not represented by a union (exactly) this may be the one factor that exempts them from miliary service.

There are several OPP, Metro, Peel, Durham and numerous municipal police officers that serve as part time citizen-soldiers and most of them handle their dual role quite well. The burden seems primarily to fall on the spouse and families that never see the members because of some very varied hours and schedules. For a young, single Law Enforcement Officer that wishes to expand their scope of experience, there's nothing that beats the Primary Reserve. For almost anyone else, it is the cause of breakups, divorces and career choices that may result in disasterous consequences.

All the Best

Dileas Gu Brath



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russm
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posted 21 March 2021 17:43      Profile for russm   Email russm   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In my own experience, police officers don't make the best Reserve soldiers anyway for the simple reason that they generally cannot commit sufficient time to be viable. I've encountered some excellent soldiers who have become police officers...all ex-Reg force who went into the Reserves and also began life as a cop. Even cops with a fair bit of TI as police officers and consequently greater flexibility regarding shifts, etc., have a hard time committing. And "grey" attenders are worse than non-attenders IMO. In any case, I have yet to see the arrangement work out with any genuine degree of satisfaction to the Unit.

It's a shame, because some of them are good soldiers. But the fact remains that you can be the best soldier in the world, but if you don't show up, you're no good to anyone!



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Mud Crawler
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posted 22 March 2021 09:29      Profile for Mud Crawler   Email Mud Crawler   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And there is the police training wich teaches not to kill unless really needed wich contradicts the army's training.Maybe russm can give us his point of view on this since i believe he had experience in training with police officers.Also talking about divorce and all te burdens falling on the wife and all, anyone married here who could tell me what it is like having a family and being in the CF.If one could talk about going oversea and being married, i would appreciate.

thx a lot,
Marc



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Doug
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posted 22 March 2021 23:47      Profile for Doug     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a lot of hard work! EVERYONE has some sort of marital problems when a tour comes around, there's no way around it. I've seen a lot of people break up before and after tours. My daughter understands a little, but it's hard on her when I go away. My wife is ok, but she still finds it hard, it doesent help that she's pregnant either. I leave on Wednesday for another tour and everyday gets harder. you worry about them when you're away, you try to do a million things for them before you go, you wonder how everything will be when you get back in 6 months.


AIRBORNE!


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PteJoe
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posted 17 April 2021 01:12      Profile for PteJoe   Author's Homepage   Email PteJoe   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey

I was looking at the picture of my cousin who's getting high in rank of RCMP, don't see him often, but are their ranks similar to the Army? If it's the same as the little message Icon I guess he's a Warrant officer for them


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recceguy
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posted 17 April 2021 22:22      Profile for recceguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's the long and short of it, without all the section and subsection stuff. Municipal cops can be in the reserve. RCMP cannot because they are an armed force that belongs to the federal government, which can be called up. Customs guys and municipal cops aren't. Therefore, in case of mobilization the, RCMP would be in a "conflict of interest" as to who he belongs to. Rather than deal with it when the time comes the govm't has been proactive and disallowed the belonging to both the RCMP and DND at the same time. As an aside, if a military person, joins the RCMP he relinqueshes all rank and starts at the bottom. This includes officers, who must resign their commission.
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noneck
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posted 30 April 2021 19:50      Profile for noneck   Email noneck   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hear that the CF policy may be about to change on the issue of RCMP mbrs in the MO. I say bring it on, there are at least 20 mbrs I know of personally that will be first in line at the CFRC.
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Brad Sallows
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posted 02 May 2021 15:35      Profile for Brad Sallows   Email Brad Sallows   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I too would like to see change. We have "lost" some quality people to the RCMP. What's the worry - in time of crisis, which service has first call? I suppose the crisis would have to be very large if the government were considering introducing the dilemma by placing reservists on active service on an involuntary basis. If we can make policy and procurement decisions based on assumptions that a big war is unlikely, then we must accept the likelihood of having to actually make the RCMP-vs-CF choice is vanishingly small and can probably be resolved by intelligent people on a case-by-case basis. Meanwhile, a simple regulatory caveat that RCMP members may not go on active service with the CF without permission from someone suitable in the RCMP should suffice.



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