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Author Topic: Unimog
bossi
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posted 21 February 2021 11:32     Profile for bossi   Author's Homepage   Email bossi     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
(hopefully Freightliner will find a way to appease the "buy Canadian" gods, so that the CF can buy some of these!)

Report: 18-wheeler maker Freightliner introduces extra large SUV
By Associated Press, 2/21/2001 01:45
NEW YORK (AP) Freightliner Corp. reportedly has plans to begin selling an extra-large four-wheel-drive vehicle more than nine feet tall and seven feet wide, introducing to American consumers a sport utility better known for its use by the German military.
Freightliner, a unit of Germany's Daimler Chrysler AG and the top manufacturer of heavy trucks in the United States, will begin taking orders in October for the vehicle, called Unimog, The New York Times reported on Wednesday. The diesel-fueled vehicle, which has a 52-gallon tank and gets about 10 miles per gallon of gas, will sell for a base price of $84,000, the Times reported.
The Unimog will be produced in Gaggenau, Germany, but targeted at people living in the suburbs of America: affluent off-road enthusiasts, fire departments and businesses needing to haul some 13,000 pounds worth of passengers and cargo, according to the Times.
The Unimog is a foot longer than Ford Motor Co.'s Excursion and 3.5 inches wider than General Motors Corp.'s Hummer, a vehicle whose design is based on an American military transport. Freightliner hopes to begin selling 1,000 Unimogs a year, the Times reported.

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Posts: 216 | From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mud Crawler
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posted 21 February 2021 17:04     Profile for Mud Crawler   Author's Homepage   Email Mud Crawler     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Don't be too quick to jump on some new piece of kit, just because whatr it would replace could be better.Just on the concielment side, it's not that good, its 9 feet tall, its 3 feet taller than me and taller than an m1a1 abraham.What DND can do though, is to buy 2 or 3 or it and a few of it's competitors and test them and buy the BEST of em, not the cheapest of em like certain choppers due to replace our Older-than-the-pilots Sea King that necessitate more maintnance hour per hour of flight than what the pilots sleeps in a night.

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Posts: 143 | From: St-Hilaire, Qc, Ca | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
XGnr
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posted 21 February 2021 17:31     Profile for XGnr   Author's Homepage   Email XGnr     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Unimog??? Sounds familiar - didn't we have some of these vehicles in the early 80's? I recall their employment with some engineer sub-units. If so, I wonder what the reasons were for the CF to can this fleet.

Perhaps the lessons learned with the past version can be used to test the new version - if (there it is - the biggest word in procurement) the CF is interested in obtaining this vehicle.

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Posts: 4 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
JRMACDONALD
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posted 21 February 2021 19:51     Profile for JRMACDONALD   Author's Homepage   Email JRMACDONALD     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Unimog vehs have been in service in Europe( German/ French, and i think, Italian Armies) for several decades. There are several Variants
( types and sizes). They have a high level of mobility and very sound design and mechanics( something to do with the Wehrmacht experience on the Eastern Front, 1940-45). They are an excellent vehicle. ( probably, the reason we'll never get it!) I remember we had several in our Battalion( mostly, Coy AMB) in Croatia, in 92.

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Posts: 99 | From: CALGARY,AB, CANADA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
USMCMatt
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posted 21 February 2021 20:50     Profile for USMCMatt   Email USMCMatt     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The Unimog was actually one of the contenders in the LSVW project during the early 90's. If I recall it was going to be built under license by Freightliner Canada (the vehicle is actually a Mercedes-Benz). Other candidates were the Steyr-Puch "Noriker-Pinzgauer" (the same company from whom the HLVW [an outstanding vehicle] was licensed).

Also included was a militarised Dodge Ram with a Cummins diesel engine.

And last and least, also the winner, the Iveco/Western Star Italian breadtruck with mark 1 non-tactical brakes, suicidal coolant preheater, and various other faulty parts too numerous to list.

In hindsight, maybe it would have been a better idea to have purchased the HMMWV and kill two birds with one stone by replacing the CUCV/5quarter ton truck and the Iltis with one vehicle.

Anyways, that's just my two cents.


Posts: 4 | From: Virginia, USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
McG
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posted 21 February 2021 22:48     Profile for McG   Author's Homepage   Email McG     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
HMMWV have their faults too. Especially on narrow European roads.

Here are official: http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/ecars/unimog/default.htm
and unofficial sites dedicated to the Unimog. http://www.unimog.net/

[ 22-02-2001: Message edited by: McG ]


Posts: 104 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
bossi
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posted 22 February 2021 12:32     Profile for bossi   Author's Homepage   Email bossi     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
LOL - I have to say thanks for a hearty chuckle!
(my reaction to "... something to do with the Wehrmacht experience on the Eastern Front, 1940-45..."). I've heard similar sentiments expressed regarding numerous vehicles (especially when discussing axle height and mud ...) - Probably something an army should rate highly when selecting criteria for evaluation, in my personal opinion (but, I'm not a politically-motivated engineer ... )

I've been interested in the Unimog since the 70's, but am impressed by the info you've all shared - thanks again.

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Posts: 216 | From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bratok
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posted 22 February 2021 16:52     Profile for Bratok   Author's Homepage   Email Bratok     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
How about the Gelaendewagen G500(aka "Wolf") replacing the Iltis?
Posts: 5 | From: Toronto, ON | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
2 Charlie
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posted 23 February 2021 17:32     Profile for 2 Charlie   Author's Homepage   Email 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
From Bratok:
"How about the Gelaendewagen G500 (aka "Wolf") replacing the Iltis? "

Good lord, have you priced this piece of kit? Over US $135, 000 for a mil spec. If the CF wants to replace the Iltis with another disposable, there are a lot out there on the open market for a lot less.

If we are going to spend this kind of money, this will work out to approx Cdn $200, 000. I a have read and seen the odd thing hinting at this vehicle, I pray not. This is of course as long as we don't build them in Canada, then they will probably run out at Cdn $225-250 g.

For this amount we can buy a UNIMOG, a whole fleet of UNIMOG's, same designer, no figure?

But, like everything else if it makes sense, then don't expect it to happen.


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JRMACDONALD
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posted 23 February 2021 17:52     Profile for JRMACDONALD   Author's Homepage   Email JRMACDONALD     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Agreed, 2Charlie. Look at LSVW, 89-100K per copy, and we could have got MIL SPEC Hummer at half the price.

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Posts: 99 | From: CALGARY,AB, CANADA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bratok
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posted 24 February 2021 22:27     Profile for Bratok   Author's Homepage   Email Bratok     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
UNIMOG is a bigger, different class vehicle, though ;) It belongs with the US HUMVEE, Swiss MOWAG, French PANHARD

Anyways, here are some pics. Thought you might be interested in what other armies drive ;)

The German Gelaendewagen:

The British Land Rover:

The Russian UAZ:

The US HUMVEE:


Posts: 5 | From: Toronto, ON | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Harry
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posted 26 February 2021 00:09     Profile for Harry   Email Harry     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello all,

Good topic, lots of good rapport. Lets expand it a bit and have a quiz.

1. Which vehicle portrayed above can be adapted to the most variants: i.e., command post, amb, recce, weapons platform, personnel support, logistics, EME, etc?

2. Which vehicle can mount the widest variety of weapons systems: section level; platoon level, company level, battalion level, regimental, brigade, etc? These weapons consist of the Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) (C-9 to us), PAW (C-6 to us), 50 cal., 40 mm grenade launcher, TOW, Anti Air Missiles, recce platforms (similar to those on the Coyote), up to a 25 mm cannon in a special turret mount, and pretty much anything else imaginable (within reason).

3. What vehicle is designed to be the easiest for maintainers to work on?

4. What is the obvious draw back to this vehicle? Is this really an impediment, or are we basing this opinion upon a perceived set notion of what role the vehicle should fill based upon our experiences? As an aside, these vehicles usually accompany other vehicles with wider track or wheelbases. So is our concern of width truly an issue?

5. After mulling this over, rationalize that the vehicle I have hinted at, was a true military design, a hybrid, created to be both robust and highly adaptable for a multitude of roles. This vehicle, unlike the others depicted did not start its life as a civilian pattern to be adapted for military use. It was hard-core mil spec, which has found its way into todayís mainstream.

Close to home, the Iltis was a true military design based upon earlier successful German vehicles. But I would be remiss to not point out that the Germans discontinued this style due to the inherent shortcomings of payload, restrictive operational use to cite but a few reasons. Yes they are robust, but compare them to the Gelaendewagen, no comparison. Unfortunately the G wagon is from a civ pattern and very expensive, as has been pointed out.

To recall the Unimogís, 4 Fd Amb ran them in Germany, then they were used in the Balkans after CFE closed out. Great piece of kit, highly adaptable, but in reality a Hummer can do the job of this veh for cheaper, same for the LSVW, with a lower silhouette.

If any one recalls we also had the 10 ton-8 wheel MANís in Germany, they ended up in the Balkans as well and were turned over to the UN. I was working in UNOMIG (Georgia) two years ago and guess what, found a couple over there that none of the local drivers could use. They still had the CFE unit IDís, and CDN UN markings. Needless to say, I had a couple of days of fun showing the drivers how to operate them and got a few souvenirs to boot.

No I am not a proponent of the Hummer, but if one looks at all the choices, compare it to the role that needs to be filled, it becomes an interesting race. I would like to see the CF keep a small light vehicle, but for dollar rationalization and fiscal reality, this is a decision I am personally glad I do not have to make. At the end of the day, I hope the lessons of the LSVW have not been forgotten. Subsequently, I believe what ever is chosen will be well received by the troops.


Posts: 9 | From: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Yard Ape
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posted 26 February 2021 10:08     Profile for Yard Ape   Email Yard Ape     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The answer to all of the above is the Hummer. It would be the best choice for the Canadian Army, and who cares if it does not fit European roads? It does not need roads.

Yard Ape


Posts: 132 | From: Northern Ontario | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brad Sallows
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posted 28 February 2021 14:09     Profile for Brad Sallows   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Sallows     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I wonder what it would cost to mass-produce a run of 1940's-era Willys Jeeps with a contemporary power train.

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Posts: 59 | From: Burnaby BC | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mud Crawler
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posted 01 March 2021 00:26     Profile for Mud Crawler   Author's Homepage   Email Mud Crawler     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
i heard it takes only 2 to 3 hours for a trained crew to take a Willys jeep down and build it up again

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Posts: 143 | From: St-Hilaire, Qc, Ca | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
ocknod
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posted 03 March 2021 13:06     Profile for ocknod   Author's Homepage   Email ocknod     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Why is everybody wanting to change vehicles. Look at the mess we are in with the lsvw!!! The ILTIS is a good jeep, gets the job done just fine. Why did we replace the cucv-5/4 ton????? I though it was a good truck, easy to maintain, and it too got the job done. I think the CF would be crazy to pick up the hummer. It's big, bulky, and i'll tell you what i'll get into a lot more places with an ILTIS than you will with a Hummer!

SECURTIAS

OCKNOD

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Posts: 28 | From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Yard Ape
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posted 06 March 2021 10:19     Profile for Yard Ape   Email Yard Ape     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Should we not also consider an armoured equivalent. Not to replace the iltis, but to augment it (or its replacment).

Yard Ape

[ 06-03-2001: Message edited by: Yard Ape ]


Posts: 132 | From: Northern Ontario | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
garb811
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posted 11 May 2021 07:33     Profile for garb811   Author's Homepage   Email garb811     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
To revive this thread...

Saw an interesting Janes Defence article the other day. Apparently the only company to submit a return to the request for proposals was DaimlerChrysler with the Gelaendewagen. All others, including Western Star which has been bought by Freightliner, have declined the opportunity. Apparently Western Stars decision was based on their evaluation of the possibility of future sales...zero.

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"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

- Edmund Burke


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