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GT
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posted 08 February 2021 15:32     Profile for GT   Email GT     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hey, this is pretty general. i think i found a picture of JTF-2 commandos.
http://www.dnd.ca/menu/Operations/unmee/images/05_feb_01/ISD01-0070ac.jpg

take a look at the guys on the flanks. the ones with blurred heads and hands.

just a curiousity.


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bossi
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posted 09 February 2021 11:35     Profile for bossi   Author's Homepage   Email bossi     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
(chuckle - gee, the guys with no name tags or headdress and low-rider holsters vice C7s hardly stand out in the crowd, do they ... but, if my opinion was valued, it would have been sought after by now - besides, I'm confident virtually all outsiders are perceived as being Walter Mitty types ...)

It's interesting, in contrast, that certain other organisations even go so far as to adopt persona such as "Sgt Grey, Capt Black, Cpl White, Pte Brown", or even obtain and wear the same headdress as the unit in situ (so as to avoid standing out like a sore thumb).

Oh, well ... if they wanted my opinion ...

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Posts: 206 | From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
2 Charlie
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posted 09 February 2021 16:34     Profile for 2 Charlie   Author's Homepage   Email 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
For an organization that is attempting to keep a low profile, they seem to be continuously tripping over appendages. From the individual more intent to show off his kit while escorting the GG in the Balkans, to the guys who frequent a few of the pubs in the BW Market, how about the guys wearing the goof ball Walter Mittyish tropical photo chic garb escorting Moe in 96.

I am amazed at how many pictures show up of the individuals with the oversized combat shirts, no nametape, rank etc. Handling exotic weapons and pretty much standing out in a crowd. But of course, we canít talk about these things, because, really we arenít supposed to see this stuff, give me a break.

This organization took on a specific role and has quietly expanded it to make them into an elite org. Good, about time, we as a military need an asset of this nature. Unfortunately they have a lousy rep for taking care of in house failings. They put the official secrets seal on all their activities including problems, specifically, pers probs...

I worked with two guys a while back that did a great job of blending into the hordes. Their own people had no idea who they were, neither did the JTF 2 guys who talked to them everyday for three months. They found it funny to derive info from our J guys and then discover most of it was inaccurate, This was one of their (Jís) first overseas taskings, two of the guys there were close friends of mine, well, and to be blunt, I donít think it was misleading info they gave out, just plain outright inaccurate. They were caught up in the image of being the untouchables and made a good display of it. Oh yes, does anybody remember the pictures from that era of the guys on top of carriers with no head gear, no name tapes, yadda yadda and HKís, and of course HQ professed that no J assets had deployed out of the country. Then again, maybe itís just me. This concludes my rant for the day.


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Mud Crawler
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posted 10 February 2021 14:31     Profile for Mud Crawler   Author's Homepage   Email Mud Crawler     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
so much for subtulty(subtilitť, whatever you write that) My friend, during his interviews was told that the Js were to be disbanded, and their activities transfered to a public organization(publis founding, just like RCMP).But coming from an organisation that claims that no Js were ever sent out of the country, while we can easily find pics of tehm on the official website, u take it like you want
Mud Crawler

Posts: 143 | From: St-Hilaire, Qc, Ca | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mud Crawler
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posted 10 February 2021 14:38     Profile for Mud Crawler   Author's Homepage   Email Mud Crawler     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I was told that the JTF, assisted by R22R, helped recover the pilot and/or a F-117 in Kosovo, can anyone confirm or correct me?I was also told they recovered hostages(canadian soldiers) in Bosnia.Is this info correct or is it misleading info?

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Posts: 143 | From: St-Hilaire, Qc, Ca | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
fusilier
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posted 11 February 2021 14:41     Profile for fusilier   Author's Homepage   Email fusilier     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
oh dear, it appears that someone's stumbled on to the almight secretive JTF2. Watch out, there may be a black Suburban with tinted windows pulling up to your house as we speak. I find that particular photo quite amusing. Either those two fellas are with JTF2 or they are still on their QL2, I don't suspect the CLS would bring to QL2 candidates with him. I still remember when the G7 summit was in Halifax a couple of years back. Gish who were those guys on the roofs of the buildings. I mean they stick out like a sore thumb. It was kind of obvious, when on Remembrance Day, I walked into my mess, a there was a group of young men standing around in civvies, in a room full of CFs, and they all had the same beeper on. It was hard to guess who they were. If JTF2 wanted to be so secretive, why don't they wear the uniforms of their parent regiments, that would look alot less apparent, than a uniform with no rank and no head dress.
Look at the SAS, they have their own cap badge and walk around in uniform all the time. Is it really necessary for JTF2 to be this secretive?

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2 Charlie
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posted 11 February 2021 15:41     Profile for 2 Charlie   Author's Homepage   Email 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The JTF 2 has been so intent on image that they have forgotten that the rest of the world takes notice of those who in their attempt at anonymity, actually stand out in a crowd. They have done such a bang up job of making themselves conspicuous that they have had their sniper teams picked off by kids, made asses out of themselves in Quebec, been picked off on the streets of Ottawa by tourists, yes those pagers do stand out when you make it a point to vogue as you quaff a pint of Guinness and brag about not being able to discuss your employment.

They have also been very conspicuous to make their presence known the world over; when in fact the official story is they where not there. So why the big charade, if these folks are so intent on being incognito, why the dramatics and antics of a half-baked presentation. Either do it right or go underground, but seeing as these folks have become part of the various travelling road shows, the entourages enjoy the mystique of the incognito tough guys. Hate to say it but in some of the less than desirable holiday spots I have been too, the first ones to take a head shot are the ones who stand out. Right, sorry, they donít wear head gear most of the time.

As for the Suburbanís with the tint, they have tried to mix us up a bit by changing a few toys, but they still donít get it. Conducting surveillance in a built up North American community with a vehicle that draws attention, especially with more than the average collection of roof electronic ornaments is, well, either cavalier or blatantly comic.

So, I have my thoughts, and knowing some of the team players, I donít question anymore when they trip over an appendage, that should have been zipped up and not pumped up with ego. It is amazing when you throw a shot into this page and several people can describe meeting or seeing them in action and low and behold know who they are, simply by their antics.


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Pte. Silcox
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posted 11 February 2021 17:42     Profile for Pte. Silcox   Email Pte. Silcox     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
you guys got it all wrong
(outrageous theroy coming)

why would canada put JTF boys on there image gallery? why would they even bother risking body shape and such of members of the JTF. Moreover, why would they show JTF members unarmed? (with the exception of sidearm). In addition, why would they feature members whom "look" out of shape?

Now the purpose of the image gallery is for public relations. why wouldn't canada represent JTF by putting a giant 6'8 150 kg soldier decked out with full gear? (okay, so mabey the hieght and wieght was exagerated, but you get the point).

See, them JTF guys are probably really skilled

If JTF is represented by 2 unarmed, out of shape soldiers, what does that tell potential enemy goverments?

eh? think about it?
Travis Silcox
(P.S. my applications got back from ottawa, i'm waiting to be sworn in)


Posts: 45 | From: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gunner
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posted 12 February 2021 15:24     Profile for Gunner   Author's Homepage   Email Gunner     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Most of you seem to have never dealt with JTF2 before. First off I will say that they are really no different from any other organization as you have good people and not so good people. I'm not refering to skills rather the way they conduct themselves.

Secondly, the picture you saw was of the DCDS and CLS in Eritria (TFEE). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the fellows with them are JTF2. The role/task they are doing is one of close protection. They don't wear berets, name tags, or rank when they are "working". They refer to each other on a first name basis and keep everything professional.

As to most of the other comments. I've heard the stories of the black suburbans' etc, etc. I highly doubt most of you are aware of any of the things they have done successfully or even non-successfully. Therefore you are simply rehashing old military myths and getting a simple chuckle out of them to feel better about yourselves. Lets keep the discussion on a level that everyone can learn something.

Gunner sends....

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Argyll_2347
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posted 12 February 2021 16:21     Profile for Argyll_2347   Author's Homepage   Email Argyll_2347     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I first heard that JTF-2 existed in the National Post during the crisis in Kosovo. It said that JTF-2 was finding targets for NATO.

I was later confirmed on the existens of JTF by my step-uncle (retd Lt-Col in Engs.).

I believe that DND made a mistake in blurring their faces. It is a dead give away!!! But I guess it is better for security reasons.

Albainn Gu-Brath

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fusilier
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posted 12 February 2021 23:05     Profile for fusilier   Author's Homepage   Email fusilier     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gunner
You stated that it was obvious that none of us have worked with JTF2 before. You know as well as I do, that even if we have worked with them, we are not at liberty to talk about it. This kind of training does'nt even go on your UER. For all you know, some of us may be members of JTF2. So I think you're a little presumptuous myself. Not all of us think that JTF2 are big macho super heroes, some are quite the opposite I'm sure. But I don't know because I've never worked with them............or have I?

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Mud Crawler
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posted 13 February 2021 13:36     Profile for Mud Crawler   Author's Homepage   Email Mud Crawler     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gunner,when i ask questions, I expect answers, not gettin blast at.If you feel the need for insulting someone, go to your brother -in-law. I'm sorry but i don't know everything so instead of 'dumping' on me, use your brains and share your knowledge so i do a better job, so then you can stop whinning about the fact that I don't know anything.In psychology, we call you behavior Superiority Complex( in wich fits the I-know-everythingand-you-don't behavior)
Mud Crawler sends back and...

[ 13-02-2001: Message edited by: Harry ]

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Posts: 143 | From: St-Hilaire, Qc, Ca | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
aa
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posted 17 February 2021 14:15     Profile for aa   Email aa     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I find it interesting how far fetched some of the stories are about JTF2. In fact, SF operators around the world are pretty much the same. Personally there are nice, down to earth ones, and complete jerks. The difference is that PROFESSIONALLY they can be counted on to do their job, even the jerks. Another point, some times there is no point in disguising who or what you are, and trying to hide will often just attract more attention. Four Suburbans outside the Lower Deck in Halifax on a Friday night? Sure it might be JTF2 (or a police tactical team). Who cares? It's the SPECIFICS that are secrets, not the general info that can be found in a hundred books.

People who have an SF background, and in particular those who know JTF2, will know that JTF is a very professional unit. No, they can't hide everything or everyone and thus they don't try to. The point is that part of being a professional soldier is being concerned with operational security, so IF you're a professional don't add to the rumour mill and compromise people's safety (and spreading a false rumour is as bad as p***ing on cl***ified information). The same applies not only to JTF, but all aspects of the CF and our allies. For example- do you know the names of Canadian pilots who bombed Yugoslavia? Keep it to yourself! I'm sure that they (and their families)would appreciate it, let them tell their own war stories!

OK, that's enough of a rant for my first posting. I look forward to reading more......


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Harry
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posted 17 February 2021 14:34     Profile for Harry   Email Harry     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Welcome aboard aa,

Thank you for the voice of reason.


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bossi
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posted 19 February 2021 15:58     Profile for bossi   Author's Homepage   Email bossi     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
aa - this is an "open" reply (i.e. shared with all who frequent this site)

Please keep in mind, this site is frequented by numerous personalities - some mature, some immature (heck - some aren't even old enough to vote) - we've no control over them, nor their personal opinions.

As to the double-edged sword of spreading a false rumour, I would point out that sometimes diversions and disinformation can be advantageous (i.e. spreading the rumour that "they're everywhere, they're everywhere ...", with the result that certain people might start nervously looking over their shoulders since they never know when the good guys might pop up).

However, my initial comments still stands:
"... if my opinion was valued, it would have been sought after by now - besides, I'm confident virtually all outsiders are perceived as being Walter Mitty types ..."

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aa
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posted 21 February 2021 16:38     Profile for aa   Email aa     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for your reply. I've quickly seen that there are quite a variety of people frequenting this site from Cadets and young Militiamen to experienced soldiers to interested civilians. To me, this just makes my comments all the more important. For those starting their careers with the military, start out on the right foot and get into the habit of good operational securtiy- for everyone's sake. As to the value of deception, I think that should be left to the professionals (whether the people tasked to do it are truly professional is another question!). In my experience letting fly with rumours and exaggeration normally will only hurt an organization (just ask anyone from the Airborne Regiment).

Your "Walter Mitty" comment is to a large degree correct, I think. For the most part, the feeling is "if you want some input, go on selection". However Special Operations is, more than anything, a mindset. Those who have that mindset, whether they be operators or supporters will always think alike. Those who do not, or those who have not been exposed to that mindset will often not understand where we're "coming from". Overall, though, I think that SF personnel and organizations are very open minded and receptive to new ideas and suggestions- they have to be to survive.

David Stirling set out the Ethos of SF operators around the world:

-A classless society
-Humility
-Sense of humour
-The relentless pursuit of excellence.

Something we strive to live by. Does it happen all the time? Of course not, but it's an ideal that is honestly striven for.


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King
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posted 27 March 2021 03:28     Profile for King   Email King     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This subject is old, but interesting so I have to put in my two cents.

It seems that everyone in the Army has a JTF2 story. They are either really positive or really negative. I would venture that the positive ones are more accurate. Not that I live in a dream world, the unit and it's members screw up on occasion like everybody else, but I think like any other SF unit around the world the are professionals.

Since the JTF2 is an elite unit, since they do a different job then line infantry (or at a more extreme), since they require of their members a higher physical and mental standards the the rest of the CF, since they are secretive a lot of resentment can build up. It happened with the Airborne, and now it's happening with the JTF2. The bad stories I hear (like kids catching their sniper team, dunno about that) may be due largely to jelousey. For all the soldiers out there who do their time in the RCR, PPCLI, or R22eR or other conventional units the JTF2 (I think) represents a challenge that either you can't handle or don't want to. They hold the upper rung of the food chain where you once did. Canada doesn't have a long history of elite units, other then the Airborne we have had nothing (unless you go back to the days of the Devil's Brigade), as such the Infantry was IT. The JTF2 is our first real experiment with such a unit. I know I'm gonna piss some people off here, but the CAR was not a true special operations unit. They had higher PT and soldiering standards the the Btln's, but they had a different mission then true SF units.

Remember that even if your a Section 2IC, or a Platoon Commander, or an OC your job is important. I'm sure in many ways it can be more difficult because such people are dealing with raw, inexperienced, recruits as well as the tediousness of life (sometimes) in a Btln. Also remember that there is nothing wrong with wanting to be in the JTF2, it's called aspiring to be the best. Hell, 90% of new recruits in the U.S. Army are there because they have notions about being Green Berets or in Delta. An elite unit in Canada is needed for such a purpose, but I don't think that the JTF2 is it. We need another unit, like the CAR but not the CAR, more like the Rangers in the U.S., which complements Delta nicely. Another, less-experienced, younger, elite unit to help with the NEO stuff and such.

Could go on, but I won't... for now.


Posts: 4 | From: The Pas Manitoba | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 27 March 2021 16:06     Profile for Doug   Email Doug     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The Canadian Airborne Regiment was not a special operations unit and no one claims it was, however it was an elite unit. The CAR also provided a great deal of start-up power to the JTF.
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