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Author Topic: I am fed up, it's time to take action!
Argyll 2347
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posted 03 January 2021 18:24           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Everyone at this forum should complain to every place we can (to DND, newspapers. magazines) about the current state of the Canadian Forces.

-Alot of the equipment is inadequete
-DND should hustle the CADPAT uniforms to release them to the full forces sooner
-Army Cadets needs to have the Army put into it
-Better care for the forces

Email me if you are with me

The DND comments URL is http://www.dnd.ca/eng/comment_e.html

Albainn Gu-Brath


the patriot
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posted 03 January 2021 23:08     Profile for the patriot   Email the patriot     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What type of training do you do during the year? I'm wondering if you're Gold Star yet? If so, what are you doing to put the "Army" back into your Cadet Corps.?! Have you written up any exercises and taken them up to your Training Officer? In a nutshell, have you taken what I've suggested and spoken to your Cadet RSM about it yet?!

-the patriot-


Posts: 193 | From: The Great White North | Registered: Jun 2000
Argyll 2347
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posted 04 January 2021 00:43           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I recieved my silver star at the Christmas Dinner last month.

Actually, I have planned an exercise that involves as much military as I could put in there. My Training Officer says it's a good plan and we are most likely going to do it.

Right now, we are finished the star training for the year and are going to do optional training. There is almost everything. Fieldcraft, Shooting (the two I signed up for), Pipes and Drums (I am already a level 4 after going to basic (I have been playing for 5 years)), Highland dancing, drill and more I can't remember.

I am trying to get the whole Army cadet system to become more "armyish" not just my corps. We are already trying to bend the rules so we can do military things.

I have actually talked to the CO about my concerns and he supports me as well as other cadets in my corps. My CO has fought so now cadets from our corps can go on exercises with the militia.

Albainn Gu-Brath

PS. are you in cadets patriot?


the patriot
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posted 04 January 2021 02:49     Profile for the patriot   Email the patriot     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No, I'm not a cadet. I'm just very aware of your system and what you young men and women do on your parade nights and the leadership programs that are available to you. When you say, make the movement more "Armyish", are you looking for more field based activities? When was the last time you guys had a range weekend?! With CFB Borden near by, isn't it possible for a few of the Cadet Corps. to get together and do a range weekend? By the way, what rifle do the cadets fire these days. There was a time when cadets would fire the FN C1A1 full bore, without the .22 insert kit. Also, it's good to see that you have a supportive CO.

-the patriot-


Posts: 193 | From: The Great White North | Registered: Jun 2000
the patriot
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posted 04 January 2021 02:54     Profile for the patriot   Email the patriot     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
By the way, I would suggest that you might want to brush up on your Methods of Instructions and Map and Compass for the National Gold Star Exam. You sound like you have the makings of a future Cadet CWO/RSM. I guess that's about one year away for you.

-the patriot-


Posts: 193 | From: The Great White North | Registered: Jun 2000
Argyll 2347
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posted 04 January 2021 11:13           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have only been in cadets since September 1999. Since then, we have gone to Borden once for a fieldcraft exercise, went shooting with the Lee Enfield No. 7 .22cal once, (i was only a cadet and made the shooting team and went to the Brig. Murdoch Competition too). We only get to shoot C7s at CLI camp, I have only been to Basic.

People say I will be the next RSM. We are having the change of command parade for the cadet RSM at the end of the month. Then the next RSM is not going to be me. There will probably be a few more, then I will be RSM.

Our corps isn't doing any more star level work except for green for the rest of the year, so next year I will work on my Gold Star.

I was the best Silver Star teacher, I was also good at Map and Compass. We got some tips from the new inspector from London. He is a Sgt. in the RCR and ex-airborne. To me he is a very good soldier, with a chest of Tour medals.

Albainn Gu-Brath


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posted 04 January 2021 15:06     Profile for G I JAY   Author's Homepage   Email G I JAY     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I ALSO THINK CANADA NEEDS BETTER FORCES.ALL OF CANADAS TANKS ARE ABOUT 20 YEARS OLD.IF A WAR DOES HAPPEN WE WOULDENT STAND A CHANCE.CANADAS MILITARY IS GOOD BUT NOT VERY LARGE.WE NEED MORE TROOPS AND NEW VEHICLES.EVEN THOUGH VEHICALS ARE EXPENSIVE CANADA SHOULD HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO BUY MORE(CONSEDERING HOW MUCH TAXES WE PAY) LUCKLY FOR US WE HAVE SOPPORT FROM MORE POWERFUL COUNTRYS LIKE FRACH AND GREAT BRITAIN IN CASE A WAR DOES START.
Posts: 13 | From: Kenora,Ontario,Canada | Registered: Jan 2001
ocknod
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posted 10 January 2021 18:19     Profile for ocknod   Author's Homepage   Email ocknod     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Anyone on this board who has been around the block a few times, and I don't mean cadets will probably understand this message!

When someone gets on here and says Canada needs better forces, really has no idea what the CF is all about. I realize that you probably meant better kit and vehicles, with that I agree. I think the CF is the size it should and probably will always be. If it gets to the point where we start mass recruiting just to bring up the numbers the quality of soldier will suffer. Anyone out there who has taught on a QL2 knows what it feels like when the OC comes down and says we need good numbers of people graduating. I can site a couple of courses that I have been a part of that the oc and PL WO stopped just short of "Everyone WILL pass this course!" It was an experiment that failed. Militia units are still today conducting recruit courses at the unit level. How can that compare with six weeks of every day training on a base, with top-notch instructors.

I think the CF should take a look at this open door recruiting policy and really weed out the chaff, before the level of soldier in the CF drops off to the level of our friends south of the border. The almight U-S military has turned into a three year holding cell for wanna-be college kids.

I guess to sum up, Canadian soldiers are considered some of the best in the world, and if we change our standards when it comes to recruiting, then the best equipment in the world will not help!

SECURITAS
OCKNOD


Posts: 28 | From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2000
echo
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posted 10 January 2021 20:57     Profile for echo     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
IM A LANCE CORPORAL NOW!!!!!!!!!( i *think* thats how you spell it)
WOO HOO!!
(sorry bout the caps,im just happy)
actually,i havent gone on the recruit course yet so im technicly a RECRUIT lance cpl(technicalities are lost on me *laughs*)

Posts: 78 | From: Markham,Ontario,Canada | Registered: Sep 2000
Pte. Silcox
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posted 13 January 2021 01:58     Profile for Pte. Silcox   Email Pte. Silcox     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
echo: Lance Corporal eh? that would be a Corporal in the CF right?


I got alot of things out of Cadets (i'm in the process of joining the Army Reserve, i'm 16)

I learned ALOT of drill (which sorta sucked)
I learned -basic- hand signals
and a bunch of other stuff like rank structure, clean up after yourself.

to tell you the truth, i'd rather join the Army than stay in cadets,

what's the point of shooting a weapon in cadets? will you ever use it because Canada wants you to protect it? probably not.

My advice to you is to join the army as soon as you hit 16

good luck to you in whatever you do
Travis Silcox


Posts: 46 | From: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Nov 2000
2 Charlie
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posted 13 January 2021 04:09     Profile for 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Whoa on the join when you hit 16 stuff there TS. Bad, really bad advice.

Ocknod points out that with an over burden of recruiting, the quality will drop off.

Don't get some bursting at the britches kid to start thinking such crap. Do you want echo to become the lowest common denominator for what will inevitably be a lowered standard for the CF.

Echo, do yourself a favour, enjoy cadets, I can admit it was probably the greatest time I ever had wearing any type of uniform. But if I say anything in this here little den of thoughts on the net, finish your education.

Education wasted in youth is, longed for in adult hood. Don't blow it. When I was 16, I almost did such a thing. I had this old RCR infantry Sgt at CFRC put me straight. He actually scared the shit out of me. So I finished high school got some life experience and then joined.

I will never forget it and the fact that education is a non-stop journey.

The desire to soldier for some youth is almost insatiable, the belief that you are invincible, the need to be part of something, wanted. Well echo that lasted until the first time I came under fire, real fire. When you are half a world from home and it is just you and some poor driver, the world gets real big and your piece of real estate gets real small.

Lets be a little more ethical here folks, we can have our little tete de tete’s between each other, but beware the advice you disseminate. For those with a bit of TI, lets police this stuff up a little better.


Posts: 61 | From: | Registered: Jan 2001
echo
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posted 13 January 2021 16:26     Profile for echo     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
like i said in my old post.
i intend to join the reserves after i graduate (which is grade 12,i dont get grade 13 anymore u c).
& i dont intend to make a career out of the CF either.
my ambition's to be either a electrical engineer or a psycologist
(or be an electrical engineer with a degree in psycology)


Posts: 78 | From: Markham,Ontario,Canada | Registered: Sep 2000
RCA
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posted 13 January 2021 18:35     Profile for RCA     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
First things first you can be a member of the reserves and still go to school. But I agree it would be extremely foolhardy to drop of school for any reason much less join the military.

Next I keep hearing this bullshit about lowing standards to get more people to join. What standards are we talking about. females, muslims, the legally blind, those incapable of doing 20 pushups??- what. If you are a member of the Militia you will have noticed by now poeople aren't exactly beating down the doors to join. (the Reg F adre in the same boat). I would be willing to take anyone who is does not have any physcial affications (ie wheelchair) who has the geniune desire to be a soldier. As a NCO it is my job to train that person to our standard not eliminate them before they join.

Ubique


Posts: 140 | From: Army of the West | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 13 January 2021 20:56     Profile for 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
RCA, from the horses mouth, Col Gordan Grant.

Where else can you get a job that trains you in high tech, pay you $41,000 a year with out necessarily a high school diploma.

Hmm, tells me that we will be lowering the education level to pre '85ish. If you paid attention this past week, the recruiting system let it be known that regional quotas, etc are gone.

So, yes RCA, if someone wants to be an infanteer or a jet jock, all the power to them. But I see the epic BS of the 80's again were the majority of the recruits will come from economically depressed regions. That's not a prob, but to lower the education standards to accomidate this, yes I have a prob. If we want the best candidate, then make the incentive to join more realistic.

Don't lower the standard and make the CF into an over rated make work project. It is a fact that we are screaming for people and it will get worse, but at what cost too make it better. Shake your head and get your composure around this, the hords are not beating a path to our door, gee I wonder why. Those who not that long ago were deemed undesireable will soon be making up your courses.

If we truly want the best then we have to make our offer a little better. Of interest, there is a bit of consternation as to why one of our largest groups from whom we draw a large percentage of recruits is drying up. Those of families with a military history, amazing, wouldn't have anything to do with seeing the truth up close.

Next


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2 Charlie
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posted 13 January 2021 23:12     Profile for 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sorry there folks, keep forgeting that the recruiting age for the militia and reserves is 16. My apologies to TS.

Hey echo, RCA is on the money. Just don't forget to enjoy your adolescence, you will grow old, but you can never grow young.

Cheers


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Gunner
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posted 14 January 2021 16:29     Profile for Gunner   Email Gunner     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hmm, that interesting about the grade 8 education. I think Col Grant may have misquoted hmself. I'd be very surprised if the education level was lowered back to that level again. The CF will continue to take the best applicant for the jobs aval. It's a good job especially for someone trying to find themselves out of high school.

It's been such a long time since the CF was on a hiring spree that it is no wonder that the youth today don't really consider it. We definitely need some good inspirational recruiting video's...be all you can be...find a future in the army! Oops that US isn't it!


Posts: 97 | From: Army of the West | Registered: Jun 2000
ocknod
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posted 16 January 2021 12:42     Profile for ocknod   Author's Homepage   Email ocknod     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Anyone that has been around a while, since the late 80's can see the decline in the quality of soldier that is graduating from QL2. Course commanders are under pressure to graduate troops so that reserve and even reg force unit numbers are up, to get more money from the govt. My point is i wouold rather have a smaller number of checked out troops over a increase of middle of the road troop anyday. Hockey and NFL Football are in the same boat. The more expansion teams that are added to the leagues the more watered down the product gets!


SECURITAS
OCKNOD


Posts: 28 | From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2000
Gunner
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posted 16 January 2021 14:38     Profile for Gunner   Email Gunner     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ocknod, I have no doubt that when your instructors put you through your basic training in the 80s they probably felt the recruiting centres were scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Everyone feels that way about the recruits coming in as our expectations are high because we suffer from selective memory about our own difficulties during training. There are not many born Warriors and they must be trained...the better the instructor the better the soldier.

The 90s were the first time we (the army) tried to justify and enforce a standard that was more than based on the whim of the instructor. In 1994 I had instructors come into my office demanding a candidate be tossed of the course because the recruit couldn't "handle it". The reason for this was because the recruit wasn't motivated enough and looked sloppy. How long had the course been on? About two days.

It's not as easy to get recruits or soldiers tossed off courses these days. It takes time, administration and hard work. While I share you sympathies about the fate of the NHL, etc. It's not quite the same situation when the CF is hovering around 60K....there are alot more Gretsky's, Lemieux's, Messiers waiting to be found and join our "hockey team".

Gunner sends...

PS - An old piece of wisdom - There is no such thing as a bad candidate only bad instructors.


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posted 16 January 2021 23:29     Profile for 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think you ref a piece by Napoleon.

There are no bad soldiers, just bad Colonels.


Posts: 61 | From: | Registered: Jan 2001
ender
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posted 06 March 2021 20:24     Profile for ender   Email ender     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
sorry to ressurect this thread but...

Someone said it was a mistake to quit cadets and join the army when you are 16. I have to disagree.

Many of the soldiers I know who were in cadets have a huge chip on thier shoulder, and thier soldier skills are patchy. One of my friends from my unit was in cadets and is a good guy, but he doesn't tell people he was in it.

I don't think cadets are soldiers by any strech of the imagination. It's more analogous to boy scouts.

The rate of pregnancy among female cadets is really high. And smoking, and drug use... (all anecdotal evidence because they don't publish these things)

And it really annoyed me when I was on my QL3 working my butt off to get my engineer cap badge, and some little kid in the canex is wearing it..

And I don't like the fact that we are supossed to salute cadet officers.

If you are a real keener and want in cadets, go for it. But as soon as you can, join the real army. High school is the best time to join the reserves because you have your summers off.

what's the general consensus?


Posts: 101 | From: toronto | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sheila Johnston
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posted 06 March 2021 21:40     Profile for Sheila Johnston   Author's Homepage   Email Sheila Johnston     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The military is doing more for the troops today than they have in decades. Bear with the powers that be. They really are working for the best interests of all concerned. It's Treasury Board that limits their progress..not any lack of concern on part of the CF.
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echo
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posted 07 March 2021 20:48     Profile for echo     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
where'd u get the info on the dem cadet pregnacy thing ender?
an if that pregnancy thing is true thats pretty sad because i know that a most cadets have enough sense t'use the condoms (a mighty ****load i hear) that the camps provide(i'm assuming that the *deed* is done during camp).

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Nulli Secondus


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ender
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posted 07 March 2021 21:00     Profile for ender   Email ender     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
anedotal evidnece from about 10 years ago. They don't publish statistics on that sor t of thing.

Perhaps this was before condoms were made availiable. (and I've also heard the stories of condom machines running out at cadet camps)

The point I was trying to make is that cadets isn't nessesarily good for the kids in it. I think if parents knew half the stuff that went on, they wouldn't want thier kids there.


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the patriot
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posted 09 March 2021 20:54     Profile for the patriot   Email the patriot     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well that just goes to tell you that you'll find rednecks in all areas of life. Teen pregnancy, smoking, and underage drinking are societal problems that plague your local high school football team... The consensus here at least is that there are rotten apples everywhere. If you are to degrade the whole cadet system, you are very sadly mistaken. The kid in the Cannex wear's your capbadge with pride and in your honour. You are his role model. ACER ACERPORI. "As the maple, so the sappling." That is the motto of the Army Cadet system. And by the by. If this was happening in front of you, then why did you not do anything to stop it (all the sinful corruption at cadet camps etc...)?! Last time I checked, the most senior infantry regiment in the country had a motto along the lines of "NEVER PASS A FAULT". You may wish to take heed to that before you slag quite a few successful people in the regular force and the primary reserve who are former cadets.

-the patriot-


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ender
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posted 10 March 2021 15:18     Profile for ender   Email ender     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
since I wasn't ever in cadets, none of said "sinfull corruption" ever happened infront of me, I heard it from other people who had been in cadets.

If I see something happening that I know is wrong, I do my best to stop it. Like I went to the recrutiting centre on time to complain about the treatment of a friend of mine that joined up. (the pt instuceter told her to do what was practically diamond pushups for her test, she passed anyway, but it seemed like systemic discrimination to me) I try to pick my battles, but I don't let important things slide.

I know some good soldiers who had been cadets. I also know some crappy soldiers who had been cadets. I really don't think that thier experiences in the cadet corps helps them to much when they join the army. (if they join the army) I also think it's not worth DND money to fund what I see as glorified boy scouts.


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garb811
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posted 10 March 2021 20:35     Profile for garb811     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ender:

These aren't really fair statements to be making IMHO. Do you realize that all of these allegations could be made of the Militia by the Reg Force...well, they actually all have at one time or another, with the probable exception of the smoking.

Do some ex-cadets in the Militia and Reg Force have a chip on their shoulder? Sure. Do some ex-Militia in the Reg Force? Sure. Some ex-Regs who transfer to the Militia on release? You bet. Of course, civies have chips on their shoulders as well. If the person is an egomaniac the person is an egomaniac...

Regs, Militia and Cadets all have their role to fill and everyone should be sensitive to that and not make it a habit to judge the collective on the faults of a few. Cadet training does not equal Militia training does not equal Reg Force training.

Condoms. They've been available for ages and not from condom machines which run out. Cadets on course, staff cadets and CIC officers on staff have very strict rules regarding frat while at camp and if caught it's a guranteed trip home with probable dismissal from their Corps and a possible charge for the CIC officer. Does sex happen? Sure, in isolated instances but it's not like they're a bunch of rabbits.

"I don't like the fact that we are supossed to salute cadet officers." By this statement I assume that you mean the CIC (Cadet Instructor Cadre) officers and if that is the case it's apparent to me that you don't understand the reason for the salute. Next time you see one of those cadets wearing your cap badge, walk over and ask them why it is officers are saluted. If they have been in any longer than a year they'll be more than happy to give you the answer and probably a detailed history of the origin of the salute we use today as well.

Keep an open mind and you'll be surprised at what sneaks in.

--------------------

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

- Edmund Burke


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ender
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posted 11 March 2021 15:38     Profile for ender   Email ender     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
garb811,

Thinking about this I have realized that I am being very hostile, even distainfull, towards cadets. I think I am making judgments based on the first few ex-cadets who I met, who were idiots. And that's not fair to the majority of cadets, most of whom are keeners who like army stuff.

I am aware of the origins of the salute, that you arn't really saluting the officer you are saluting the Queen's commision. But I don't undersand why CIC officers hold any sort of commision.

My main beef about cadets is that I think DND money could be better spent elsewhere. But I realize that's what some reg's think about the reserves.

Aplogies to any cadets or ex-cadets on this forum whom I may have insulted.

[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: ender ]


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echo
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posted 11 March 2021 22:17     Profile for echo     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
apology accecpted.

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Nulli Secondus


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posted 24 March 2021 22:40     Profile for Soldier of Fortune   Email Soldier of Fortune     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm in the Army Cadets and I think its great. When im 16 i going to join the reserve. No, I will not lose my education, i will only work evenings and weekends. Try e-mailing one of the reserve corps, they tell you everything you need to know. Cadets is great, espeacily if you are planning on having a career in the CF, teaches you lots of stuff. Sometime next month my Corp is going to Borden for live shooting. Im new and have to pass a test so i don't know if ill be shooting, but we use .22s. Does anybody know what the test is like?

[ 25 March 2001: Message edited by: Soldier of Fortune ]

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Soldier of Fortune


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ocknod
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posted 31 March 2021 19:27     Profile for ocknod   Author's Homepage   Email ocknod     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Cadets to the left, Cadets to the right...Every where I look people posting on this board are cadets....Is there anyone here who is not a cadet...I'm not putting your guys down here, but I really don't think you are in a position to comment on what is going on the C-F until you have first hand knowledge. Sure you go away to cadet camp for a couple of months each summer. BIG DEAL. Wait unil you at least get into the reserve or up to the Regular Force before you get on here and complain about how bad things are. I mean I see posts from you guys saying that Canada needs better equipment, weapons, and troops. How can you as a cadet make that jusdgement. The lasst time I saw cadets in action they were on the parade square with spit shone parade boots, and using FN rifles and even old 303's. Get with the program. Your comments are always welcome, but done carry much weight unless you have been in the middle of some god forsaken training area when your broken down piece of s*** truck quits, or your 77 set radio craps out on you in the middle of a contact, or your just can't train because there is no money, or the equipment is not available.

SECURITAS

OCKNOD

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Master Blaster
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posted 01 April 2021 23:47     Profile for Master Blaster   Email Master Blaster     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ocknod:

The masterful warrior picks his battles and his victories from the blur of battle.

I suggest that while you and I and many others on this net are more than aware of what these young warriors will encounter while serving our Grand Lady, they will still have to make our same old mistakes, learn from them, adapt and overcome and become the old WarHorses that will chafe and chastise the young of the future.

From some of what I've seen from the various posts, 'our' future may not be secure but some will carry the torch for us forward to the next generation or warriors. Many will pay the supreme price but some will survive to teach, learn and teach some more.

I learn everyday and I think that you do too.

As now, more than ever before...

Dileas Gu Brath

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echo
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posted 02 April 2021 00:08     Profile for echo     Send New Private Message     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
u can damn well bet i'll be a torch carrier

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Nulli Secondus


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