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Fus
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Member # 648
Icon 16 posted 21 January 2021 15:45
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Was just curious on the role Engineers play in combat situations. I was checking things out and I already understand that the primary role is to assist the army in living and fighting (transport, fixed defense, mines, bridges etc) and to deny the same to the enemy but also noticed that their secondary role was to fight as infantry as required. Historically, how often have engineers been called to front-line combat and how much infantry training do they receive today. I know that their job can take them to front line areas but I really mean fighting to take and hold ground/ patrolling etc offensively as aposed to defense. I realize in todays operations Engineers would be indisepensible in helping to restore war-torn cities and communities but would they be effective war fighters as well ? Reason I'm asking is that although I have been a Reserve Infantryman for several years I am also taking civil engineering in university (if thats even close to the level of training that is required) I am educated to build things but I rather blow them up so I guess I have both in my blood.

Just to make them perfectly clear I am in no way downplaying any service branch of the CF. I respect anybody willing to serve their country in any shape way or form.
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Posts: 126 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jan 2002
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Yard Ape
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Icon 1 posted 21 January 2021 16:53
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Have you read through this earlier post about Engineers ?
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Posts: 298 | From: Northern Ontario | Registered: Feb 2001
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Spr Earl
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Icon 1 posted 21 January 2021 19:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Fus:
Was just curious on the role Engineers play in combat situations. I was checking things out and I already understand that the primary role is to assist the army in living and fighting (transport, fixed defense, mines, bridges etc) and to deny the same to the enemy but also noticed that their secondary role was to fight as infantry as required. Historically, how often have engineers been called to front-line combat and how much infantry training do they receive today. I know that their job can take them to front line areas but I really mean fighting to take and hold ground/ patrolling etc offensively as aposed to defense. I realize in todays operations Engineers would be indisepensible in helping to restore war-torn cities and communities but would they be effective war fighters as well ? Reason I'm asking is that although I have been a Reserve Infantryman for several years I am also taking civil engineering in university (if thats even close to the level of training that is required) I am educated to build things but I rather blow them up so I guess I have both in my blood.

Just to make them perfectly clear I am in no way downplaying any service branch of the CF. I respect anybody willing to serve their country in any shape way or form.

Now the Lord of the Realm has glorified the Charge of the Light Brigade,
And the thin red line of the Infantry, when will their glory fade?
There are robust rhymes on the British Tar and classics on Musketeers,
But I shall sing, till your eardrums ring, of the Muddy Old Engineers.
Now it's all very fair to fly through the air, or humour a heavy gun,
Or ride in tanks through the broken ranks of the crushed and shattered Hun.
And its nice to think when the U-Boats sink of the glory that outlives the years,
But whoever heard an haunting word for the Muddy Old Engineers?
Now you musn't feel, when you read this spiel, that the sapper is a jealous knave,
That he joined the ranks for a vote of thanks in search of a hero's grave
No your mechanised cavalrys' quite alright and your Tommy has drained few peers,
But where in **** would the lot of them be, if it weren't for the Engineers,
Oh they look like tramps but they build your camps and sometimes lead the advance,
And they sweat red blood to bridge the flood to give you a fighting chance
Who stays behind when its getting hot, to blow up the roads in the rear?
Just tell your wife she owes your life to some Muddy Old Engineer,
Some dusty, crusty, croaking, joking Muddy Old Engineer.
No fancy crest is pinned to their chest, if you read what their cap badge says,
Why 'Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense' is a queersome sort of praise,
But their modest claim to immortal fame has probably reached your ears,
The first to arrive, the last to leave, the Muddy Old Engineers,
The sweating, go getting, uproarious, glorious Muddy Old Engineers.

Say's it all.
--------------------
UBIQUE

Be Safe
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Posts: 97 | Registered: Dec 2001
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McG
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Member # 150
Icon 1 posted 21 January 2021 23:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Fus:
. . . I already understand that the primary role is to assist the army in living and fighting (transport, fixed defense, mines, bridges etc) and to deny the same to the enemy . . .

Add demolitions and construction to your bracketed list; and "move" to the unbraketed list.

quote:
Originally posted by Fus:
Historically, how often have engineers been called to front-line combat . . .

There are several examples of this through out history. One frequently reffered to is the minners of the first World War. Enginners would attempt to tunnell under enemy trenches and collapse them with explosives. Both sides did this and both side conducted counter minning, where Engineers would dig toward the sound of enemy tunnelers. Frequently this resulted in opposing Engineers engaging in hand-to-hand (or shovel-to shovel) combat under ground.

quote:
Originally posted by Fus:
I know that their job can take them to front line areas but I really mean fighting to take and hold ground/ patrolling etc offensively as aposed to defense.

The secondary role used to be to fight as Infantry in the defence. The "in the defence" has been dropped and the Engineers will fight as Infantry when ordered, in any phase of war. An Enginner Troop is a standard component of any square combat team, and I have heard more than a few Tactics Instructors recomend to task the Engineers as reserve and throw them in when there is not enough Infantry. (As an Engineer I would suggest this is potentialy squandering an important reasource.)

quote:
Originally posted by Fus:
. .. I have been a Reserve Infantryman for several years, I am also taking civil engineering in university (if thats even close to the level of training that is required)

You have the educational requirments to be an Engineer Officer.

quote:
Originally posted by Fus:
Just to make them perfectly clear I am in no way downplaying any service branch of the CF. I respect anybody willing to serve their country in any shape way or form.

You are aware that Engineers are a Combat Arm, right?
--------------------
Chimo!
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Posts: 221 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2001
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Fus
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Icon 16 posted 22 January 2021 08:32
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Thanks for the reply, thats a pretty catchy tune. I was aware that the engineers were a combat arm, I just wasn't a bit more detail on the matter. How different is the reserve training compared to the regs. I know for the other combat arms reserve training is now where near is good as the regs but is it any different for engineers, do they get to practice using the basic heavy equippment regularly ?
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Posts: 126 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jan 2002
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McG
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Icon 1 posted 28 May 2021 22:14
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Fus,
Are you still considering joining the Engineers? Would this be Reg Force or PRes? Officer or NCM? I am only asking for one reason. If you are considering joining the Reg Force as an Engineer Officer, then I strongly caution you about taking advantage of the Education Reimbursment. If you do, you will not be elligable for the recruiting allowance of $40 000. However, you may only claim the education reimbursment up to one year after you are first allowed to claim. It does not give you a very large window to make up your mind, but that is the way things are at the moment.

. . . and there is one further 'if.' There is no certainty as to how long the recruiting allowance will be available.
--------------------
Chimo!
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Posts: 221 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2001
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