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Sharpey
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Icon 17 posted 11 March 2021 15:00
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I have no excuse for not knowing the proper voice procedure for a fire mission, as I am Recce and the Arti guys/gals are my main weapon. I could get this from my Regiment but why not ask the experts...
So anyone willing to help through here or email?
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Posts: 109 | From: Windsor | Registered: Jan 2002
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astrof
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Icon 16 posted 11 March 2021 22:10
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The sigs Aide de Memoir lists this and numerous other reports & returns however individual units have their own particular way of working on their nets, it's probably best to consult with the unit you will be working with to get the procedure down pat. If you want to just better your VP the ACP125 CANSUP B lists everything you need to know VP and radio net structure wise.
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Posts: 12 | From: Edmonton | Registered: Apr 2001
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Sharpey
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Icon 17 posted 11 March 2021 22:17
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Thanx for the tip, I'll look into it. As for what unit we work with, the phantom Regimnts out there! We havn't really had the chance to work with them in the field, possibly this Maple Leaf though I beleive. Thanx again.
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Mike Bobbitt
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Icon 1 posted 12 March 2021 13:18
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The format I used (as a simple Infantryman) was as follows:

A. Grid
B. Direction
C. Description of TGT (type, size, activity, protection)
D. Type of ammo (HE/WP)
E. At _____ hrs for _____ mins

Personally, I think D would be determined by the arty guys, but it never hurts to make a suggestion...

[ 12 March 2002, 13:20: Message edited by: Mike Bobbitt ]


Mike Bobbitt
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Michael OLeary
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Icon 13 posted 18 March 2021 17:51
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Actually Mike, the "Direction" that the proforma calls for is the direction from you, the observer, to the target. This is required when calculations are made to convert the observers corrections (add, drop, left, right) to gunsight data in order to ensure that both you and the firing battery (or mortar group) are using the same "left" and "right".

Mike O'Leary
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Mike Bobbitt
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Icon 1 posted 18 March 2021 21:12
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Heheh. Agreed. The "D" I meant was for "Type of Ammo" which I assume the gunners would pick based on our description of the target. [Smile]


Mike Bobbitt
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Michael OLeary
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Icon 13 posted 21 March 2021 22:09
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Sorry Mike, by the time I got to the end of your post I read the "D" as a fire discipline shorthand for Direction.

Better RTFQ more closely next time. [Smile]

Mike
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RCA
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Icon 10 posted 22 March 2021 13:07
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The call for fire must contain the basic elements to tell the Arty what is required.

The type of ammo selected will tell us what you want. ie HE -neutiztion, Smoke - blinding/screening etc. Maybe you want Time . If you don't specify, convention will give you HEPD.

If you don't give a direction, the CP will do it for you. However if you don't specify your position you will get Line GT which makes it a little more difficulkt to adjust unless you are in line between the guns and tgt.

"however individual units have their own particular way of working on their nets" - not in the Artillery when it comes to Fire Missions. It is called fire discilpine and is very specific WRT meaning and intent. There is no room for Regimental quiffs when putting rounds on the ground.

PS to Gunner - Pistol Pete is taking over as Niner this weekend and I'm moving from 17 to 97. Who would have believed eh.


Ubique
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Gunner
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Icon 10 posted 23 March 2021 18:38
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quote:
PS to Gunner - Pistol Pete is taking over as Niner this
weekend and I'm moving from 17 to 97. Who would have
believed eh.

Hi RCA.

Yep I heard about Pistol Pete as I try to keep my ear to the ground. What happened to the current Niner?

Great news about the 97 appointment. Is it complete with promotion or is that stil to come?

Geez, and I remember you as a lowly sgt ragging on my sorry a**!

Well Done!
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Infanteer
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Icon 1 posted 23 March 2021 21:21
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Just covered fire-missions on a pre-CRIC "covering-the-basics-lesson" and I have a couple questions.

First, where abouts does the FOO officer fit into the TO&E;, more specifically into an Infantry organization. Is he an arty officer?

Second, why is the "destroy" type-of-fire mentioned in the PAM as not usually used due to excessive amounts of ammunition required. To me, this seems like a stupid CF budget-cutback measure rather than a tactical one, but I am sure there is a better explanation.

[ 23 March 2002, 21:22: Message edited by: Infanteer ]
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Gunner
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Icon 10 posted 23 March 2021 22:13
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quote:
First, where abouts does the FOO officer fit into the TO&E;,
more specifically into an Infantry organization. Is he an arty
officer?

The FOO is indeed an arty officer. He is not part of the company TO&E; rather he is part to the TFBH Arty Bty TO&E.; The BC will allocate his FOOs to meet the tactical situation.

quote:
Second, why is the "destroy" type-of-fire mentioned in the
PAM as not usually used due to excessive amounts of
ammunition required. To me, this seems like a stupid CF
budget-cutback measure rather than a tactical one, but I am
sure there is a better explanation.

Hmm, destroy may be the infantry term however we term the type of engagement as "destruction". It is not used very much for the reasons you indicated (excessive ammunition use) and usually only with large calibre (heavy) guns. The reasoning behind this is the very nature of artillery. It is not a precision weapon rather an area weapon. If you want to take out a tank or MG post it is better to use a direct (line of sight weapon). However, if you want to "neutralize" a company postion, a regiment of guns can do it very easily. Rest assured that there is a reason for it and not just CF incompetence or liberal mismanagement.

[Big Grin]
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rceme_rat
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Icon 1 posted 24 March 2021 01:06
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And always remember that the logistics chain can't move infinite amounts of ammo, food, water, fuel, medical supplies, clothing, repair parts, replacement vehicles and weapons, etc -- even in battle, you want to use your resources efficiently. You call in what you need to do the job, and only that -- so you'll be able to take on the next target, and the one after that, and the one after that ...
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Infanteer
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Icon 1 posted 24 March 2021 01:20
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...But I really wanted to liquify that hill along with the machine gun post..... [Wink]
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RCA
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Icon 10 posted 24 March 2021 16:13
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If you want to liquify the hill, might I suggest "shake and bake". A regimental tgt with a battery each of Delay, VT and WP, about 10 rds FFE, TOT giving appox 60 rds each type falling with a period of about two minutes.(thats 105mm C3s) However this will still only suppress a tgt for a certain amount of time. The infantry will still have to move in and take it.(however it is illigal to fire WP at troops or put a time fuse on it, but it is not illigal to blind/screen with it which this will surly do.

Remember our biggest job is to suppress or neutrlize, not destroy. But we have been known to take tops off of hills in using direct fire. (been there, done that)

To Gunner, no promotio, just the "title", and Ex-niner is going ACOS for the CBG. Pistol Pete's old battery has your old buddy as BC, and his companion has our sister battery. That BC is the now the 2ic and the old 2ic is now 19 again. God save us all.


Ubique
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Gunner
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Icon 10 posted 24 March 2021 16:28
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RCA,

Wow, I'm glad I am not there anymore. What a gang of thieves! Hey, by the way, are you referring to the new 2i/c (ex BC 13 Fd Bty) as the guy I taught on QL2 in 1990?
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