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Author Topic: Hate to revive this topic about uni's, Why does FMR CDS have a US SF patch?
Se7eN
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posted 24 May 2021 16:57      Profile for Se7eN   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was my Understanding that you could only wear other countries badges when in their country? Am I wrong??

- Se7eN

[ 14 June 2001: Message edited by: Se7eN ] [Canadian]

[ 03 July 2001: Message edited by: Se7eN ]


Posts: 29 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gunner
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posted 24 May 2021 22:05      Profile for Gunner   Email Gunner   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Garrison Dress and summer tans were discontinued after soldiers complained that it was affecting their quality of life (QOL). The dissatisfaction came from too many uniforms etc to take care of...combat dress, garrison dress, Winter DEUs, Summer DEUs. I didn't like the garrison camo pattern but I didn't have a problem with the concept of garrison dress as long as we didn't have to wear that god awful sweater.

I'm quite familiar with the advent of the Combat Readiness Evaluation that was developed by MGen Vernon as Comd LFCA and the subsequent genesis into an army "Warrior" program. The Warrior badge was discontinued after the warrior program was bureaucratically destroyed. The badge was based on your PWT score and your 3.2 km run result. After the run was deemed in excess of the CF standard it was dropped from the score leaving just the PWT score. I think there was some concern over whether everyone was tested on an equal footing (cbt arms soldiers get more rounds than CSS) and whether it was fair comparing the results. At the end it simply collapsed under the weight of bureacracy and it subsequently evovled into minimum level of capablity (MLOC) training and deployment level of capability (DLOC).

I'm not sure if we ever needed a badge to show what "skill" level we were at. You are either a soldier or you are not. To quote a line from Blazing Saddles "Badges, we don't need no stinkin badges".

Cheers,


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JRMACDONALD
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posted 25 May 2021 02:14      Profile for JRMACDONALD   Email JRMACDONALD   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ICS badges are still worn on DEU(at least , inthe Infantry!) Garrison dress is in the garbage bin,where it belongs.( along with Work Dress!) ( ever tried to do an overhaul on a M113, in THAT!!?) We'll get someone asking for re-instatement of " Regt'al ****ies/ascots "next!(Patriot,perhaps!!)
As for the "Warrior Badge" = a command driven response to pers , who didn't accept the fact they were soldiers(who should maintain skills) and were deployable!



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JRMACDONALD
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posted 25 May 2021 02:19      Profile for JRMACDONALD   Email JRMACDONALD   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey Gunner!- yeah, we got more rnds,WE had a harder test! (check the rifle pam) INFANTRY-everything else IS CBT SUP!(definitely, rear ech!)



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Grunt031
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posted 25 May 2021 14:28      Profile for Grunt031        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We don't need any badges. We don't need our uniforms covered with trinkets and baubles like the U.S. Army.
I like the U.S. Marine Corps practice.
Nametag and MARINES.
However, I think the army needs some sort of garrison dress (not what we had though). The combats are just a little too shop monkey looking for some circumstances, while the DEU's, with all their regimental regalia (excellent for formal occasions), can be overkill.
A good kit would be a tux for occasions (DEU), and suit for business (A smart, simple garrison dress), and coveralls for doing what were payed to do (Your combats).

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Gunner
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posted 25 May 2021 20:09      Profile for Gunner   Email Gunner   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
JR MacDonald

ICS badges buddy was referring to werer (I believe) the Warrior badges.

The only thing worn on DEU is the trade badges on the sleeve.

Finally, ...ack your comments on the higher infantry standard for PWT. We always had our fair share of soldiers who me that standard (even without the extra rounds!).

Regards,


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JRMACDONALD
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posted 26 May 2021 00:35      Profile for JRMACDONALD   Email JRMACDONALD   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gunner- being an old TOW gunner, SEEN, UNDERSTOOD!( I will suck back and re load!)
However, I would find it interesting to learn how to pass / achieve the INF PWT level 3 test with Fewer rnds than req.( unless , of course there was EXCELLENT communication betwenthe butts and firing line!)
HEY GRUNT031-?? [QUOTEA good kit would be a tux for occasions (DEU), and suit for business (A smart, simple garrison dress), and coveralls for doing what were payed to do (Your combats). ] [/QUOTE] We have DEU for"occasions' ,and combats"for doing what were payed to do " . SO what do you mean by "BUSINESS"?????????9 you are, either, on parade or doing" what were payed to do "!!!!



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Se7eN
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posted 26 May 2021 00:42      Profile for Se7eN   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why cant we wear qualification badges on our dress unifroms, but countries like the US wear our para wings on their uniforms?
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JRMACDONALD
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posted 26 May 2021 03:29      Profile for JRMACDONALD   Email JRMACDONALD   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
DEU are our"dress" uniform. CFP 265 is explicit about what may be worn on them. what do you mean, by dress uniform,and Qual badges?



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Grunt031
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posted 26 May 2021 03:30      Profile for Grunt031        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We do wear our airborne wings on our DEU's.
As for other qualification badges, what specifically do you mean. Do you want to have a badge for passing an MG or Comms course?
Like I said before, keep it simple, clean and professional.

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Gunner
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posted 26 May 2021 23:01      Profile for Gunner   Email Gunner   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
JRMacDonald, as far as I can remember everyone fired the same PWT....the infantry had to get a higher score than the "other arms". You could be right as it has been awhile.

By the way...I remember very well the 7.62mm ball point pen.

Cheers!


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McG
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posted 26 May 2021 23:49      Profile for McG   Email McG   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Infantry fire a few extra serials in the PWT level 3. Other trades that do not test to that level, and so don't fire those serials. It has been a while since I've tested to that level (not being Infatry and all), but the C7 pam describes the additional serials.


Chimo!


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Se7eN
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posted 26 May 2021 23:56      Profile for Se7eN   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What I mean is say that we qual for the us para course, are we allowed to wear the wings, or say we completed the Ranger course ect(on our dress uniforms)... On our combats would it not foster esprit des corps to have airborne tabs or other paratrooper, ect..??

[ 26 May 2001: Message edited by: Se7eN ]


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JRMACDONALD
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posted 27 May 2021 07:38      Profile for JRMACDONALD   Email JRMACDONALD   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
seven-your questions are more specific, and can be answered. CDn Qual badge are , certainly authorized for wear( as mentioned for DEU).Foreign badges, if awarded, are only auth ,if you are stationed/posted in that country( eg. I was in 3RCR/4CMBG/CFE Europe, and was auth to wear my German JUmp Badge and French Commando badge)( if you were posted to the US, you could wear their badges, but not European!) an exception was CDN Airborne Regt, in which, we were allowed to wear foreign Jump wings on our Smocks only! Wearing such badges on Cbts is not allowed and has always been a point of arguement( ask any Ranger qual'd pers!) CFP 265 is the dress manual and some sections of QR&O;, CFAO and drill manual add some guidance. hope this clarifies.
Gunner- the real problem with 556 rd is, you must remember to push the pencil in ONLY SO FAR!



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Michael Dorosh
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posted 31 May 2021 00:40      Profile for Michael Dorosh   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Dorosh   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I dunno, I liked the CF sweater. At least until we went to England, and saw the beautiful ones the British Army had - each Highland Regiment had its own "jersey", in colours that complemented the colours of their kilts (which they wore as "barracks dress" - some clowns from the Toronto Scottish actually wore their Garrison Jackets in conjunction with their Hodden Grey kilts while we were over there - GAG).

The bus driver jackets and lagoon green shirts were awful, and the Garrison jacket was poorly designed (the waistbelt rode way too high and the jacket was too hot to wear indoors and too light to wear alone on anything but a mild autumn or spring day). But I think the biggest complaint had to be the boots - high top, high polish boots were an insult to the Airborne Regiment, firstly, and secondly, were the cause of so much additional uniform maintenance - for those who did not join in the rush to get medical chits demanding combat boots.

Would be nice to see a new garrison dress similar to the old British working dress - a cotton OD green shirt that you can tuck in - combine with OD (combat) green denim pants (WITHOUT cargo pockets) you would have a sharp uniform that you could do the odd bit of maintenance or heavy lifting in as well. (You could also wear the shirt with trews or the kilt). Seems silly to wear camouflaged uniforms (this applies equally to garrison dress and the new camo combat uniform) to do office work or classroom lectures in.



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