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pat
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posted 03 February 2021 13:30     Profile for pat   Author's Homepage   Email pat     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well I have just heard that the CIC is submitting that a CIC bar be added to the medal for six years of being a CIC officer. After twelve you would get the CD. For all of you, I think this is a load of ........ any way. If you want a medal, join the the forces like the rest of us and do your bit. This is just one old sapper giving his two bits. What's your view?
Posts: 19 | From: ottawa | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Michael Dorosh
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posted 03 February 2021 21:56     Profile for Michael Dorosh   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Dorosh     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
According to the DHH, the SSM is:

quote:

Awarded to a member of the Canadian Forces for a service performed under exceptional circumstances in a clearly defined locality for a specified duration, not necessarily in a theatre of active operation. The medal may be awarded, in exceptional cases, to persons posted to or attached to the Canadian Forces.


Are you merely spreading a rumour? What is your source that "the CIC" has submitted this? I can't imagine they would have a legitimate claim, even if the terms of the award are rather vague.

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Posts: 130 | From: Calgary, Alberta | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
garb811
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posted 03 February 2021 22:11     Profile for garb811   Author's Homepage   Email garb811     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Personally I wouldn't get worked up about this, even if it does come to pass. IMHO the SSM isn't worth the metal it's made out of due to it's wide open, yet inconsistent requirements.

Do an aggregate of 180 days in Alert, get the medal. Flew over to CFE a few times iGo on a few SAVs/TAVs to Bosnia that add up to 180 days, get one. Even now, go to the NATO EWACs Det in Germany, SHAPE HQ in Brussels or if your ship is attached to STANAVFORLANT and you'll get one. Do 365 continuous days as a member of the MSGU in Algeria and you don't. Difference? Only in the place you don't qualify for this, or any other medal, do you have to worry about some religious zealot coming along and chopping off your head if you step outside the compound. From what I can see the only people who actually did anything to earn this medal are the ones who went to Cambodia and those who go on a Humanitarian mission. There's a reason this is called the "Beer and Bratwurst" medal and it isn't out of respect.

My very jaded look at this is due to the high Op tempo we have had, Snr Officers and Snr NCOs, particularly in the hard air and sea trades, were becoming very uncomfortable with folks running around with 5-6 tour medals prior to getting their CDs, which was all the Snr folks were sporting. Even today there are a ton of these guys around; SSM and CD, perhaps the 125 or Queens Jubilee if they're lucky.


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Michael Dorosh
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posted 03 February 2021 23:35     Profile for Michael Dorosh   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Dorosh     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Your take on it seems accurate. I knew a 2 RCR pipe band drummer who got it for sleeping in a TOW vehicle (and many gasthauses) during his "tour" overseas (Germany).

It's eerie that the medal ribbon looks so close to the Third Reich period Kriegsverdienstkreuz....

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Posts: 130 | From: Calgary, Alberta | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
JRMACDONALD
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posted 04 February 2021 15:22     Profile for JRMACDONALD   Author's Homepage   Email JRMACDONALD     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Dorosh_ I was NEVER in 2RCR pipes &drums;!!! stop these rumours!!

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Posts: 99 | From: CALGARY,AB, CANADA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
pat
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posted 05 February 2021 19:05     Profile for pat   Author's Homepage   Email pat     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well this is a prosal that is coming from the vice's shop that will go befor the honours commit of the CF. As for the gimmy for being in germany, well it was a good go. I just think the hole thing has gone down the tube, give it to every one as soon as the are done there TQ2.
Posts: 19 | From: ottawa | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
2 Charlie
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posted 05 February 2021 23:11     Profile for 2 Charlie   Author's Homepage   Email 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Garb811, you point out some of the problems with the SSM. When it was put out as a concept, a few of us referred to it as the brass filler, amazing how it really turned out. I agree with your comment that many of the folks who seem to readapt it for various activities, have very LIMITED real operational experience.

I chuckled to myself recently when a civilian staffer pointed out the medals worn by an individual of fame. I identified the CD, QJ, the 125, the SSM (for HQ staffing in Germany), and the GW medal. The person had no problems indicating the GW medal was awarded for being on the ground in Qatar when the war broke out, guess their aircraft couldn't depart for additional 24 hrs, a veteran made.

I have my ghasthaus gong. My thoughts are much the same as others here, as an award it has lost a lot of credibility. I remember when it started as a proposal, it was as garb pointed out, brought forward by the HQ folks and adopted therein as the all-encompassing joke it has become.

The CIC should continue in my opinion have to qualify for the CD as do the reserves and militia, this proposal is ludicrous and will serve to devalue an already insignificant icon.

Oh well, from my experience, many of the senior cadet league staffers these days are former senior officers, predominantly of the air persuasion; I have no doubt it will probably come to fruition. In fact I will put a beer on it, any takers?

[ 05-02-2001: Message edited by: 2 Charlie ]


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bossi
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posted 07 February 2021 13:22     Profile for bossi   Author's Homepage   Email bossi     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, if "the big brass" valued my opinion, they would have asked for it ... (and, so far - they haven't). Nevertheless ...

It's also amusing that the SSM is absolutely VERBOTEN for any activity within Canada, even if it involved saving/protecting Canadian lives ... (which, oddly enough, I thought was our most important task?)

Only in Canada, eh? Pity.

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Posts: 213 | From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
pat
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posted 09 February 2021 17:14     Profile for pat   Author's Homepage   Email pat     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
2Charlie...whats your brand
Posts: 19 | From: ottawa | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
2 Charlie
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posted 09 February 2021 19:39     Profile for 2 Charlie   Author's Homepage   Email 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wet, cold and free of course, LOL.
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Pte. Silcox
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posted 09 February 2021 22:18     Profile for Pte. Silcox   Email Pte. Silcox     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Firstly

there are medals that the canadian forces gives to cadets

one being, -the cadet award for bravery- (if one cadet saves the life of another by risking his own)

another being the lord strathcona medal

Cadets take these medals to there careers in the military, so when there 35, in the reg force, they still will have there cadet medal from when they were 15.

another thing, cadets can take an airborne course and get there wings, then take it on to there military careers as well.

anyways, just thought I would expand the view a little

Take Care
Travis Silcox


Posts: 45 | From: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
2 Charlie
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posted 10 February 2021 02:12     Profile for 2 Charlie   Author's Homepage   Email 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi TS,

Not sure where you are going with this, but keep in mind we have many different medals out there that service people wear or have been presented with.

There are reservist/militia who are serving police, fire and corrections with the various medals for service and conduct that they are entitled to wear and vice versa.

There are also those with service in other militaries. I have seen many an ex UK service member in the CF with associated medals. I also remember a Sgt who had served with the US Army and had authority to wear his campaign ribbons on his CF uniform. Then there are those who wear the Ranger tab, various foreign wings, etc.

Many a Reg Force has gone on to one of the aforementioned and wears their medals in the new institution or organization. Including jump wings.

As for cadets, all one has to do is go into the site for honours and awards and check out the order of ribbons/medals and go from there. If it is presented by or given approval under the authority of the GG or GIC then it is good to go.

I am a former cadet, it was probably the best time I had in uniform. My cadet corps is one of the few that had several seriously injured and a fatality, the bravery medal came out long after I joined the Reg Force. There were three of us who surpassed the eligibility for the bravery medal, so I have no prob with a cadet receiving it and wearing it for perpetuity. I have maintained my contact with the movement and enjoy the program. I am one of the first to ensure that it is fun for them and not a spawning ground for recruits. As for cadets and jump wings, have you ever attended a cadet jump course? Nothing more impressive than motivated determined young adults to make you appreciate your own load station in life.

But as for the application for the SSM by the CIC, not a chance do I agree with that proposal. Earn your time and expect nothing more than to set a positive role model for future adults and leaders of our communities. If you want gongs, move on to where you can earn them, even if it is Alert.

Green Light, out of here

[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: 2 Charlie ]

[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: 2 Charlie ]


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Pte. Silcox
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posted 10 February 2021 16:48     Profile for Pte. Silcox   Email Pte. Silcox     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hey

thanks 2 charlie

after reading the intial msg, i found that I mis-interpreted it. I thought we were saying that no one but militia/reg force personal should recieve medals.

but i am corrected, many thanks

Travis Silcox


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ocknod
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posted 11 February 2021 14:07     Profile for ocknod   Author's Homepage   Email ocknod     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
SIx years as a CIC! What's next a medal for lacing up your boots the right way...What the hell is higher thinking about...Do we really want our troops to look like them "soldiers" south of the border? Spend a weekend in Canada, get a foriegn serice ribbon. a couple years of undetected crime Good Conduct Medal. I've got a buddy that is serving south of the border, jumped ship and joined the Mighty US ARMY. Anyway he is a rad-op in an infantry section son some big ex. His Sect Comd gets whacked,2IC same thing. Buddy takes the initiative calls in fast air...wasted the en position, gets an army commendation medal...ON A GODDAMN EXERCISE.

Getting decorated in the CF means a hell of a lot more than our friends south of the border. Dont cheapen it!


SECURITAS

OCKNOD

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Posts: 28 | From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
2 Charlie
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posted 11 February 2021 15:18     Profile for 2 Charlie   Author's Homepage   Email 2 Charlie     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hmm, I remember in our not too distant past that you should have earned a medal if you laced your boots properly. With all the various regimental quirks and decorumís, there was a great diversity of the PROPER way to lace. Thank god for CANFORGENS and an actually dress policy complete with diagrams.

Not that we have created strange icons such as the Warrior. But like many of its predecessors it to has disappeared.

Just a bit of levity, letís just keep in mind that as a common wealth organization we have been ingrained with the necessity to only present our soldiers with true honours to be worn with distinction. Yet the very people who lead us embellish themselves with decorations, of which many are mere chest fillers. Take the 125, QJ, MM or OM, the majority of recipients are in the old boy net, there are a few more, but in reality, the troops know the diff. I respect the Cpl Engineer with his 5 to 9 or the grunt with his. Has anyone noticed the GG has three, one remarkably resembling the CD, did I miss something or does the CBC give out the CD?


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RCA
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posted 11 February 2021 17:01     Profile for RCA   Author's Homepage   Email RCA     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
2C

I'm stepping out on a limb here so don't chop it off - but if I remember correctly all the former GG had CDs on in their pictures. As well the Qeen and Prince Phillip wear it as well. I'm going on memory now and at my age its not exactly my most valuable asset.

As to the CD being worthless, I use to think that also until I receved mine ( I have the clasp now also- and this will be the only medal I will recieve as it stands now) and I consider it as recognotion of my service to this country.

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Ubique


Posts: 136 | From: Army of the West | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
McG
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posted 11 February 2021 19:52     Profile for McG   Author's Homepage   Email McG     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I once worked with a WO who loved to tell a story about a post exercise parade he was one with a bunch of American reforger troops. A driver was given a medal for keeping his vehicle operational for the duration of the ex!! I could not imagine giving a medal just because your truck did not break, even if the guy was driving one of our MLVW's. The WO's CFR'd now, but i'm sure he is still sharing that story.
Posts: 104 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
CIC
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posted 12 February 2021 10:55     Profile for CIC   Author's Homepage   Email CIC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Intresting topic guys

I have been lurking around this board for awhile and I finally figured I would post!

I am a CIC officer and feel no need to recieve the SSM. I joined to help the cadets and because I belive in the organization.

That being said I do believe the Canadian Rangers now receive the SSM. I am not sure how long it takes them.

Maybe someone can confirm the above for me. I feel that if the Rangers can get the SSM then the CIC should be able to also. Maybe not after 6 years but after 15?

Cheers

Tom Platt


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Yard Ape
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posted 12 February 2021 14:04     Profile for Yard Ape   Email Yard Ape     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
We should NOT be giving or getting medals just for doing our jobs in country (regardless of the job). We have ONE medal which appropriatly recognizes commitment made to the CF, it is called the CD. We have medals which recognize acts of bravery (conited in country or on international deployment) and medals which recognize operational deployment out of country. Therefore, I say there should be NO SSM for CIC, NO SSM for rangers, NO SSM for anybody who did not take part in some significant operation not covered by any other medal (but I guess it is already to late for that and the description leaves that exception open). If the CIC need special recognition, they can ask for a CIC clasp on thier CD (the rest of us could get a good chuckle at thier expense too). If we start getting too loose with who we give a medal to, they will become as much of a joke as that american who didn't break his truck, or the one who made the right tactical decision on an exercise.
And no more "queen's Jubilee", "Canada 125", "make everyone feel cozy medals." I'm even a bit skeptical about the Canadian Peace Services Medal; it is being given out even for deployments for which other medals have been given (we should stick to one medal per operation/deed, not doubling them up), but I'll leave that for another time.

Yard Ape


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Yard Ape
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posted 12 February 2021 14:12     Profile for Yard Ape   Email Yard Ape     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
And what defines "exceptional circumstances"? The Ottawa-Quebec ice storm? Red River Floods? Maybe the Y2K scare? Does there have to be some element of danger or adverse living/working conditions?
Should, maybe, this point not have been clarified when the medal was invented?

Yard Ape


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Gunner
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posted 12 February 2021 15:12     Profile for Gunner   Author's Homepage   Email Gunner     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I heard a rumour the SSM was to be awarded to members who served on domestic operations. Haven't seen anything in writting and therefore have to chalk it up to a military myth.

I'm not necessarily against awarding medals for significant things. I'll be the first one to admit that I've called it the "I've drank a 1000 beer in Germany and all I got was this medal". On the other hand it is also awarded for very noble causes (the DART deployment to Turkey, Central America, etc). Where do you draw the line with what is significant and what isn't?

The CPSM I viewed with abit of distain at first. However, every award that a Canadian is given for serving with the UN or NATO is an award by a external source, in a sense a foreign decoration. The CPSM is Canadian specific for service overseas. Is it a bad thing for Canada to award its soldier for service overseas? I'll wear my CPSM proudly.

As far as the older folks who have a chest full of Queen's Jubilee, Canada 125, Order of St John, etc. I knew a fairly senior officer who only has a CD and a SSM. He's still one of the brightest officers I've met and could put alot of people with "been there done that" medals to shame.

There is more to a person than what is on his chest. If you are evaluating someone based on what they look like that's pretty superficial.

Gunner sends......


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pat
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posted 26 February 2021 19:46     Profile for pat   Author's Homepage   Email pat     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Good day every one. Just adding my two cents. The GG wears the Centinal medal, the 125, and the CD, In QR&O;'s it states that the GG will have meet the qualifing time for the CD on his/her appointment, since the GG is commander in Chief of the CF. The GG also is awarded the Order of Canada and The Order of Military merit. Once the GG leaves office the medals are their's.

For the ranger bar it if for 125 or 130? (one of those) patrols in the artic with a ranger patrol group. They are also eligable for the CD after twelve years of good service.

The SSM is not given for any service in Canada (except Alert) because it is your duty as a soldier to serve and protect your country no matter what that might be.

The Canadian Peace Keeping medal is for thirty days service, any other medal is from another organization, such as NATO, UN, ect..
so the jist is that finaly the goverment is awarding a medal for service in peace.

As for the cadet medal I was under the understanding that only the lord stath medal can be worn if you move on too the CF. But I could be wrong.


Posts: 19 | From: ottawa | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged

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